Powerwall versus Givenergy batteries

[Darreno]

I chose the Tesla Powerwall for a few reasons.

1) It can be installed outside in the rain. This is really important to me, as I don't want high capacity battery storage within the House. If it catches fire, it won't stop and poisonous gasses are also an issue. My family safety was too important. I even had all the Solar Electrics kept out of the Roof Space.

2) Tesla Gateway 2. Islanding our Solar & Battery kit was a priority. The Tesla Gateway 2 not only does this but it has 8 additional fused connectors. 4 connectors which are Backup Side, and 4 connectors which are Grid-Tied side. This means you can wire up a 7kW Ev Charger on non-backup side which can pull power from the Grid at night, or Powerwalls Stored Solar Power during the day. If the Grid has a blackout, then the Charger fails with the Grid (in my case) because I didn't want it draining the Powerwalls. Connecting stuff to the Gateway 2 unit free's up space (slots) in your Consumer Board.

3) Integration with the Tesla App. I can see my car, I can see my Powerwalls, I can see where all the power is coming and going... I can start charging from my App, I can reschedule Battery charging... it's my go-to house power controller.

4) Storage Capacity is important. But what is also very important is Discharge Capability. Powerwalls discharge at 5kW each. So if you have two of them, they can discharge at 10kW. This is very important because you can run reasonably high loads in the house, and not pull from the Grid (in Winter this'll be an issue). As an example, with two Powerwalls you can run a 7kW Ev charger straight from the Powerwall stored solar... at 7 kW !! ... you're not stuck with waiting for the minimum 1.4kW Solar generation level before it'll start charging your Ev. Having another battery setup with a low discharge capability just means you run the risk of pulling from the Grid all the time at peak rate. No point having all that storage capacity if your discharge capability stops you getting to it...

Your situation with 3 Phase Supply but Single Phase to the house, would be identical to my setup.

This means your Powerwalls would backup the Single Phase to the house. Provide the Solar to the house. Provide power to your 7kW Ev Charger.

Then if you really wanted to get going... fit a 3 Phase Smart Meter, fit a 3 Phase Distribution Board alongside it. Wire in another separate 3 Phase Ev Charger and have all the options open to you.

You can then charge your car at 7 kW from Grid, or from Powerwall Solar. Or you can use the other 3 Phase charger to charge from Grid Only at 11kW. This is good because the 3 Phase charger isn't interrupting your Powerwalls or Solar setup. It's just downstream getting Grid Power. So no unneccessary Powerwall drain. You can then use all of it, all at once, and get some nice charging speed benefit on 3 phase, no worries.

I was going to skip Intelligent Octopus for GoFaster as I didnt want the EV charger to drain the PW when the day time charging kicks in. However I forgot the PW can have the EV charger grid side.

So when the house is islanded off in the day running on the battery. IO could still activate the charger on the grid side in the day at the same time without draining the battery that is islanded off.

Do I have that correct?

 

[billy1318]

Yes, went the GE route. There is a wait for the new gen 2 batteries and inverter but I've factored that in. To give an idea, I ordered around 6-7 weeks ago, kit is expected August and I'm hoping for an install maybe Sept/Oct. I received the design for approval today and now waiting on the DNO submission and install date. Patience needed but I think it will be worth it. I'm getting 25 x 395 panels, a 5kw hybrid inverter, 2 x 9.5kwh batteries, Eddi hot water solar diverter, Zappi 2 charger and emergency power fail-over for under £16k.

Hi spon88,

I came across your original post after Googling for the same information: I was quoted two different packages by a solar company, one with 2x GE9.5kWh (£23.5k) or the other with 1x PW13.5kWh (£24.5k) on a 8.3kW (20 panel) system, without the EV charger (I've already got an EO Mini Pro2 installed).

Unless the hardware costs have increased significantly over the last 2 months, I think my Aug2022 quotes may be a little over inflated by this local solar company (over £7.5k more expensive than your quote). Can I please ask for the details of your solar company? I would like to check if they will be able to supply and install to Kent. Many thanks!

 

[94jdh]

Hi spon88,

I came across your original post after Googling for the same information: I was quoted two different packages by a solar company, one with 2x GE9.5kWh (£23.5k) or the other with 1x PW13.5kWh (£24.5k) on a 8.3kW (20 panel) system, without the EV charger (I've already got an EO Mini Pro2 installed).

Unless the hardware costs have increased significantly over the last 2 months, I think my Aug2022 quotes may be a little over inflated by this local solar company (over £7.5k more expensive than your quote). Can I please ask for the details of your solar company? I would like to check if they will be able to supply and install to Kent. Many thanks!

It's First4solar - same as myself, my install is supposed to be Bank holiday Monday. I'm not convinced it's happening, my order was end of March and communication has become shocking. I'll update if it happens or not.

 

[billy1318]

It's First4solar - same as myself, my install is supposed to be Bank holiday Monday. I'm not convinced it's happening, my order was end of March and communication has become shocking. I'll update if it happens or not.

Thank you for the info. They are pretty far away from me (Kent) but I'll give the a try anyway to see if they'll still take the job.

I hope your installation takes place on BHM. It seems like the GE batteries are now in stock so fingers crossed for you!

 

[spon88]

Thank you for the info. They are pretty far away from me (Kent) but I'll give the a try anyway to see if they'll still take the job.

I hope your installation takes place on BHM. It seems like the GE batteries are now in stock so fingers crossed for you!

Yes, F4S. But as mentioned, the comms have become poor and my install is later than expected. I have a very good price from them but will reserve judgement until the gear is in and running. I'm pretty sure that any order with them now won't be installed until late Q1 poss Q2 next year. That said, the whole industry is in turmoil at the moment. Good luck with it.

 

[billy1318]

Yes, F4S. But as mentioned, the comms have become poor and my install is later than expected. I have a very good price from them but will reserve judgement until the gear is in and running. I'm pretty sure that any order with them now won't be installed until late Q1 poss Q2 next year. That said, the whole industry is in turmoil at the moment. Good luck with it.

Thank you spon88! I need a lot of that, like you said given how busy the industry is at the moment. I have now contacted F4S - it's a long shot, but hey, worth a try.

The local company that has quoted me £23.5k can install as soon as the DNO permission is ready. They are recommended by a friend who used them back in 2021 and they seem like an experienced, established company. They are just so much more expensive!

I wish you luck to on getting your installation soon!

 

[nufan]

Guys - I had a GivEnergy installer around the other day for a quote.

An interesting “why hadn’t I considered that already?” moment was regards the backup power supply arrangement needing a local earth in the event of cut-off from the grid supply.

We live on a chalk hill. The soil is all of 2 inches - so a copper rod will likely be a pain.

I can see from the install manual that a PW looks to require the same.

Anyone have any experience of installers driving in a copper rod/earthing either installation.

From talking to the GE installer surveyor looks like the idea of having backup power might be buggered! He mentioned experience of having a sparky hunting for a 50ohm earth for hours/costs of a few thousand just for the backup power to be right.

 

[btc1k]

Hi spon88,

I came across your original post after Googling for the same information: I was quoted two different packages by a solar company, one with 2x GE9.5kWh (£23.5k) or the other with 1x PW13.5kWh (£24.5k) on a 8.3kW (20 panel) system, without the EV charger (I've already got an EO Mini Pro2 installed).

Unless the hardware costs have increased significantly over the last 2 months, I think my Aug2022 quotes may be a little over inflated by this local solar company (over £7.5k more expensive than your quote). Can I please ask for the details of your solar company? I would like to check if they will be able to supply and install to Kent. Many thanks!

Wowzer, I just paid £14,700 for 16 panels and a powerwall...

 

[spon88]

Guys - I had a GivEnergy installer around the other day for a quote.

An interesting “why hadn’t I considered that already?” moment was regards the backup power supply arrangement needing a local earth in the event of cut-off from the grid supply.

We live on a chalk hill. The soil is all of 2 inches - so a copper rod will likely be a pain.

I can see from the install manual that a PW looks to require the same.

Anyone have any experience of installers driving in a copper rod/earthing either installation.

From talking to the GE installer surveyor looks like the idea of having backup power might be buggered! He mentioned experience of having a sparky hunting for a 50ohm earth for hours/costs of a few thousand just for the backup power to be right.

I've got a long earth rod which was installed over 3 years ago with a car charger. I'm getting the EPS and I've asked if the same earth rod can be used for it, but still waiting for an answer. It's local to the installation so don't see why not.

We live in a clay soil area and all was fine. The only real consideration was positioning of the rod, keeping it close to the main house wall without compromising any damp courses etc.

 

[billy1318]

Wowzer, I just paid £14,700 for 16 panels and a powerwall...

That's amazing! Is your installer anywhere near Kent and did you have your system installed recently? I suspect the PW alone will be near the £10k mark nowadays.

I've gone back to the expensive company to check when they can fit me in. If it's soon or as soon as I get the DNO permission, I may have to use them, reluctantly, just because two other companies I've approached are deceiving their sales pitch to try to sell me a 5kWh system (I believe so they don't have to get the DNO) instead of one that is actually suited to my roof and my needs. Two further companies have not even bothered responding to me at all

 

[RedMod3]

I've got a long earth rod which was installed over 3 years ago with a car charger. I'm getting the EPS and I've asked if the same earth rod can be used for it, but still waiting for an answer. It's local to the installation so don't see why not.

We live in a clay soil area and all was fine. The only real consideration was positioning of the rod, keeping it close to the main house wall without compromising any damp courses etc.

We had 2 PWs and 4 panels installed for £18,900 this year. They used the same earth rod that was installed 9 years ago for our solar panels, and the impedance easily met the requirements. I suspect you'll be OK.

 

[spon88]

We had 2 PWs and 4 panels installed for £18,900 this year. They used the same earth rod that was installed 9 years ago for our solar panels, and the impedance easily met the requirements. I suspect you'll be OK.

Ah, good to know. Hopefully one less thing to worry about! Cheers.

 

[spon88]

Thank you spon88! I need a lot of that, like you said given how busy the industry is at the moment. I have now contacted F4S - it's a long shot, but hey, worth a try.

The local company that has quoted me £23.5k can install as soon as the DNO permission is ready. They are recommended by a friend who used them back in 2021 and they seem like an experienced, established company. They are just so much more expensive!

I wish you luck to on getting your installation soon!

I spoke with F4S yesterday to add bird netting to the job - £650. They were actually easy enough to speak with this time and sent the updated quotation within 15 minutes. This is only the front-end team but it seemed like a marked improvement on the last few months where I know they've struggled with suppliers and staff shortages. They did say that they'd got new people in place, resolved a lot of supply issues and were steadily working through the installation back-log. Of course they would say that but maybe things are improving. I'm still down for a late October install (ordered in April) so I'd be surprised if they're installing anything new in the quoted 8-10 weeks.

Their reviews are kinda polarised; lots of good ones but also some bad ones more recently where the comms and delays have affected folk and they took to their keyboards. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping they'll come good, albeit later than I'd hoped. I will of course feed back when it's actually completed.

 

[94jdh]

I spoke with F4S yesterday to add bird netting to the job - £650. They were actually easy enough to speak with this time and sent the updated quotation within 15 minutes. This is only the front-end team but it seemed like a marked improvement on the last few months where I know they've struggled with suppliers and staff shortages. They did say that they'd got new people in place, resolved a lot of supply issues and were steadily working through the installation back-log. Of course they would say that but maybe things are improving. I'm still down for a late October install (ordered in April) so I'd be surprised if they're installing anything new in the quoted 8-10 weeks.

Their reviews are kinda polarised; lots of good ones but also some bad ones more recently where the comms and delays have affected folk and they took to their keyboards. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping they'll come good, albeit later than I'd hoped. I will of course feed back when it's actually completed.

I've had a complete nightmare with them recently, not replying to emails or returning calls, promise after promises ( I'll PM you my recent emails later).
Install date Bank Holiday Monday and Tuesday, so less than a week away with no signs of details of delivery of the equipment etc.
The most recent was a promise on Friday by email to call me Monday with the delivery schedule ( I'd asked for items to be delivered well in advance to check everything in place for install).
No call, Tuesday 4:40pm a call to say we haven't forgotten you and will call you back later - no call.
This afternoon, a call to confirm the install ( followed by an email), I asked about delivery - it should be Friday!
I'll reserve my judgement until both Friday and Monday and update on both days. I hope I'm proved wrong but have my suspicions it'll be cancelled.

 

[spon88]

I've had a complete nightmare with them recently, not replying to emails or returning calls, promise after promises ( I'll PM you my recent emails later).
Install date Bank Holiday Monday and Tuesday, so less than a week away with no signs of details of delivery of the equipment etc.
The most recent was a promise on Friday by email to call me Monday with the delivery schedule ( I'd asked for items to be delivered well in advance to check everything in place for install).
No call, Tuesday 4:40pm a call to say we haven't forgotten you and will call you back later - no call.
This afternoon, a call to confirm the install ( followed by an email), I asked about delivery - it should be Friday!
I'll reserve my judgement until both Friday and Monday and update on both days. I hope I'm proved wrong but have my suspicions it'll be cancelled.

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping for some good news from your install and fingers crossed it still happens. I'm working on the basis that by the end of October they'll have zero excuses for delaying mine. I propose to ramp up the pressure 3 or 4 weeks in advance to minimise any wriggle room. It's a bit of a war of attrition at the moment!

 

[94jdh]

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping for some good news from your install and fingers crossed it still happens. I'm working on the basis that by the end of October they'll have zero excuses for delaying mine. I propose to ramp up the pressure 3 or 4 weeks in advance to minimise any wriggle room. It's a bit of a war of attrition at the moment!

It always seem to happen to me!
Anyway, if it all turns up I'll be checking it's gen2 equipment etc - so no excuses. It'll be interesting how quick they call after delivery for their next payment (40%)?

 

[Morak]

I ordered my GivEnergy system in December (2x8.4?kWh batteries) through F4S. They (or the gen2 equivalent) were supposed to be installed in Aug but this has now been pushed to Nov.

 

[spon88]

I ordered my GivEnergy system in December (2x8.4?kWh batteries) through F4S. They (or the gen2 equivalent) were supposed to be installed in Aug but this has now been pushed to Nov.

Ordered back in December? Blimey. A couple of us on here ordered in April and now have install dates in October (already delayed). Why have they pushed you to November please? Did you opt for the new gen 2 gear more recently or just fell foul of the transition away from gen 1 and then needed to join the gen 2 queue? Sorry for all the questions, we're just trying to get a clearer picture of what the availability really is and whether our install dates are realistic or not. I guess it's just a case of gritting your teeth and waiting unless you are willing to accept possibly outdated gear which is already in supplier's stocks.

 

[BBL70]

Hi - I found this discussion searching for more information and reviews of the GivEnergy battery and would appreciate any views on the following:

I've been quoted £20k to install 19 Jinko panels and a 9.5kW GivEnergy battery (local Surrey installer) and wondered if anyone has recently been quoted for a similar sized system or has a perspective on supply vs. demand recent price increases?

Looking at the wholesale cost of the kit its about £14k (inc VAT) and so £6k for installation and overheads seems like a lot.

For context I've also had a quote of £30k for a similar system and EOn recently gave an indicative price of £15k (but didn't confirm details of the battery) - as has been highlighted in other posts, there is also a trade-off of price vs. installation speed (EOn say 6months+ currently)

 

[browellm]

Hi - I found this discussion searching for more information and reviews of the GivEnergy battery and would appreciate any views on the following:

I've been quoted £20k to install 19 Jinko panels and a 9.5kW GivEnergy battery (local Surrey installer) and wondered if anyone has recently been quoted for a similar sized system or has a perspective on supply vs. demand recent price increases?

Looking at the wholesale cost of the kit its about £14k (inc VAT) and so £6k for installation and overheads seems like a lot.

For context I've also had a quote of £30k for a similar system and EOn recently gave an indicative price of £15k (but didn't confirm details of the battery) - as has been highlighted in other posts, there is also a trade-off of price vs. installation speed (EOn say 6months+ currently)

It feels like a staggering about of money, but a sign of the times I suppose.

When my Eon install went in March '21, I paid £9k for 12 panels and the 8.2kWh battery (largest available at the time).