Powerwall 2 versus Franklin LFP Batteries

[Baluchi]

We want to add a battery backup to our solar system in 2024. I was pretty set on getting the Franklin LFP batteries, because I prefer to have LFP chemistry in the house, plus we had a good experience with that installer already. But after checking the costs of Tesla Powerwalls, it's making me second guess that decision. The Powerwall, in the surface, looks way cheaper. Can anyone explain if I'm missing anything here? Are there hidden costs with the Powerwall I'm not considering?

Powerwall 2 (x2)
Total capacity: 27 kWh
Estimated cost with installation: approximately $24,000 (based on browsing Reddit posts)

Franklin Home Power LFP (x2)
Total capacity: 27.2 kWh
Estimated cost with installation: $31,000 (quote from company that installed our solar)

If it matters, we've got a 11.5 kW solar system, with net metering from our power company, plus I drive a Tesla.

 

[lodar]

Can anyone explain if I'm missing anything here?

plus I drive a Tesla.

Does your Tesla support Charge on Solar?

Do you have a Tesla Wall Connector that supports Charge on Solar?

Do you care about Charge in Solar? That would require a Powerwall.

 

[Baluchi]

Does your Tesla support Charge on Solar?

Do you have a Tesla Wall Connector that supports Charge on Solar?

Do you care about Charge in Solar? That would require a Powerwall.

Probably no to all of those. It's a 2021 Model 3 and I use a Grizzl-E wall charger.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Powerwall 2 (x2)
Total capacity: 27 kWh
Estimated cost with installation: approximately $24,000 (based on browsing Reddit posts)

Ordered 3 Powerwalls recently and my gross cost was $31k installed before the discount. Obviously you won't get the $6,200 solar + PW discount but you might want to get an actual quote from Tesla for a real comparison.

 

[bemyax]

It's really hard to put a price on a good installer. Your instinct about the better choice says a lot.

 

[Baluchi]

Yeah, that was my headspace too, at least until I saw the huge price difference, LOL. I also like the idea of putting lfp batteries in my house, for safety reasons.

I'm watching YouTube videos right now from people who got powerwalls. Customer service appears to be lacking, but I don't know if the cheaper price would make that worth dealing with.

 

[cali8484]

Some considerations:

* The really low PW price is only available from Tesla. If you get PW's from Tesla then will your installer continue to support your existing solar system? Many would not since it's been modified by another installer. Tesla is unlikely to support it either.
* FranklinWH does not support frequency shifting power for proportional curtailment of excess AC coupled solar power production in grid outages. So, in grid outages, you could have less efficient capture/use of your solar power.
* How confident are you about FranklinWH support? And will they be around in 10 years?

 

[morph3ous]

Do you have a Tesla Wall Connector that supports Charge on Solar?

Do you care about Charge in Solar? That would require a Powerwall.

Just a tangent, but wanted to correct a technical detail. Charge on Solar (CoS) does not need a wall connector. It definitely works with the UMC and I think it will work with any charger. The communication for CoS is either through bluetooth, WiFi, or using the API. Not sure which. It does require a Powerwall as @lodar stated.

CoS is neat and I am using it to great effect, but I wouldn’t say it is that much of a feature that you should be swayed towards the Powerwall. Before it, I just manually did things and it wasn’t a huge burden.

I do not know much about the Franklin batteries, but always love learning more. I wish my Powerwalls were LFP!

 

[Iain]

Just a tangent, but wanted to correct a technical detail. Charge on Solar (CoS) does not need a wall connector. It definitely works with the UMC and I think it will work with any charger. The communication for CoS is either through bluetooth, WiFi, or using the API. Not sure which. It does require a Powerwall as @lodar stated.

CoS is neat and I am using it to great effect, but I wouldn’t say it is that much of a feature that you should be swayed towards the Powerwall. Before it, I just manually did things and it wasn’t a huge burden.

I do not know much about the Franklin batteries, but always love learning more. I wish my Powerwalls were LFP!

My understanding is the new powerwall 3’s are LFP. I’m waiting on an install and I’m getting 3’s but when you order you have no idea if you are getting 2’s or 3’s until you get your detailed install plans.

 

[dhrivnak]

I have the FranklinWH and have been pleased with them and have installed on a few other homes. Their service has been great. After trying for over 3 years to get PowerWalls we gave up. If you want more details feel free to PM me.

 

[Baluchi]

I have the FranklinWH and have been pleased with them and have installed on a few other homes. Their service has been great. After trying for over 3 years to get PowerWalls we gave up. If you want more details feel free to PM me.

Good to hear, thank you. I placed an order for Tesla solar and powerwalls years ago, and didn't even realize the order is still on my account until recently. I wrote off Tesla solar and just went with a local company.

My car has an LFP battery, and I like its characteristics so all other things being equal I'd get the Franklins.

 

[BGbreeder]

Yeah, that was my headspace too, at least until I saw the huge price difference, LOL. I also like the idea of putting lfp batteries in my house, for safety reasons.

I'm watching YouTube videos right now from people who got powerwalls. Customer service appears to be lacking, but I don't know if the cheaper price would make that worth dealing with.

If you are concerned about lithium ion safety, just install your batteries not attached to your house. It isn't that difficult. There are a number of examples here.

A Tesla install will be the cheapest per kWh of installed storage, but you have to do it their way, and as they say, "there is a price for everything".

Good luck,

BG

 

[Baluchi]

If you are concerned about lithium ion safety, just install your batteries not attached to your house. It isn't that difficult. There are a number of examples here.

A Tesla install will be the cheapest per kWh of installed storage, but you have to do it their way, and as they say, "there is a price for everything".

Good luck,

BG

I've got a detached garage and I could put them in there. It's not heated/cooled though.

 

[jjrandorin]

I think choice is good. I also put some value on customer service. My own install fits in the Tesla cookie cutter box, and since I had the appropriate expectations, It worked for me.

You like your current installer, and have a relationship with them. If I was in your shoes I would either:

1. Discussing if my preferred installer that has taken care of me previously was ever going to install the Tesla product, or
2. Asking them if they could get the cost of the franklin batteries "closer" to the Tesla price, fully acknowledging they will likely never get all the way there but asking if they could work with me on it, or
3. punting on the whole thing (idea of batteries) and perhaps looking at some other backup solution like a generator.

Im not poo pooing Tesla, i have a Tesla install and I am happy with it, but there is value in good customer service (a LOT of value to me), and there is value in an existing relationship where they have taken care of you.

Believe it or not, Tesla fits into that description for me ( an existing business relationship where I have been taken care of), but I fully realize not everyone has that experience.

Im happy with my Tesla batteries, but there are others. I havent researched the franklin, and for me am not super concerned about the LFP battery issue. Neither my model 3 performance nor my model Y performance have LFP batteries and they are parked in my garage. Thats 150 kWh of battery storage, so having 27kWh of powerwalls next to them is nothing to me.

 

[Baluchi]

I think choice is good. I also put some value on customer service. My own install fits in the Tesla cookie cutter box, and since I had the appropriate expectations, It worked for me.

You like your current installer, and have a relationship with them. If I was in your shoes I would either:

1. Discussing if my preferred installer that has taken care of me previously was ever going to install the Tesla product, or
2. Asking them if they could get the cost of the franklin batteries "closer" to the Tesla price, fully acknowledging they will likely never get all the way there but asking if they could work with me on it, or
3. punting on the whole thing (idea of batteries) and perhaps looking at some other backup solution like a generator.

Im not poo pooing Tesla, i have a Tesla install and I am happy with it, but there is value in good customer service (a LOT of value to me), and there is value in an existing relationship where they have taken care of you.

Believe it or not, Tesla fits into that description for me ( an existing business relationship where I have been taken care of), but I fully realize not everyone has that experience.

Im happy with my Tesla batteries, but there are others. I havent researched the franklin, and for me am not super concerned about the LFP battery issue. Neither my model 3 performance nor my model Y performance have LFP batteries and they are parked in my garage. Thats 150 kWh of battery storage, so having 27kWh of powerwalls next to them is nothing to me.

Great points...I need to ask if they're able to deal with powerwalls.

 

[sunwarriors]

Your powerwall install price is way way off I feel. I follow the solar reddit pretty closely and don't see that pricing outside of bundled installs from Tesla with solar with discounts stacked on.

I'd suggest getting an actual real quote for yourself from Tesla and you will see the price is probably similar if they will even do it at all. My guess is Tesla will not touch your install and farm it out to another installer which will tack on another $10k or whatever, but that will actually create a real apples/apples comparison.

I'm a fan of LFP and since batteries sit at 100% all the time, I'd rather that be LFP vs PW2s or NMC cells. As I always state, I'm pretty biased for Enphase in general as a customer so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also not a believer that Tesla energy/PWs are superior to other products, but that's just me in a sea of PW owners here.

I think Franklin has good performance/price, but they are really newer, private, etc so you don't know how/what they are doing overall. There are videos of people installing them so you can do your research.

My Enphase batteries weren't much more than Tesla PW2 actually due to credits, etc...

 

[Baluchi]

Your powerwall install price is way way off I feel. I follow the solar reddit pretty closely and don't see that pricing outside of bundled installs from Tesla with solar with discounts stacked on.

I'd suggest getting an actual real quote for yourself from Tesla and you will see the price is probably similar if they will even do it at all. My guess is Tesla will not touch your install and farm it out to another installer which will tack on another $10k or whatever, but that will actually create a real apples/apples comparison.

I'm a fan of LFP and since batteries sit at 100% all the time, I'd rather that be LFP vs PW2s or NMC cells. As I always state, I'm pretty biased for Enphase in general as a customer so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also not a believer that Tesla energy/PWs are superior to other products, but that's just me in a sea of PW owners here.

I think Franklin has good performance/price, but they are really newer, private, etc so you don't know how/what they are doing overall. There are videos of people installing them so you can do your research.

My Enphase batteries weren't much more than Tesla PW2 actually due to credits, etc...

I thought this might be the case. The Tesla website actually has $18,000 as the installed price, which seemed way too low...so somehow I found the $24,000 price on Reddit, which is sketch.

Similar thing happened when I was shopping for solar. I got quotes from multiple local companies and when I told them the estimated price on the Tesla site, they all said that wasn't possible. So I'm guessing Tesla published install prices that are artificially low in order to get leads.

I think we'll probably go with the Franklin LFP batteries through the trusted install. Gonna use the tax credit from our solar install once we do our taxes.