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Porsche CEO Muller Ignores Tesla
- Thread starter Dutchie
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SebastianR
Active Member
Good point - should have left that argument out. It got very complicated / convoluted in that merger. Not the least because of the special ownership arrangements of VW. The key point is that they were strong enough to attempt it. (Sometimes people argue that you need to sell millions of cars to be viable as a car maker. Porsche shows that's not the case.)
Pretty much the only reason they were strong enough to try was the Cayenne. That really broadened Porsche's appeal. And not surprisingly, considering they didn't even have a sedan at the time.
Interesting to see if Tesla has a similar hit in their hands with the Model X, probably not quite since the extension of market from Model S to Model X isn't as big as the extension from Cayman to Cayenne was.
Zzzz...
Member
Well Porsche family have not had any stakes in VW, but after VW "bought" Porsche the Porsche family ended up controlling 51% of voting shares of VW.
chickensevil
Active Member
So VW paid the money but Porsche got the voting shares? Sounds like Porsche won on that one.
Well, I'm not sure how much Porsche actually won - control-wise - if one reads of the latest twists and turns in the VW saga this spring.
VW is complex. It goes back to WWII.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
For sure, Tesla as a brand is possibly considered "cooler" now than most other relatively mainstream brands (including probably Porsche) in many markets in North America and parts of Europe and Asia. That brand awareness and momentum shift are surely not going unnoticed in the German auto manufacturer boardrooms although their executives may attempt to laugh it off.
Just as the Model S has taken away possibly thousands of sales of the Panamera, the MB S/E classes and the BMW 5s/7s/Ms, the Model X is going to make a pronounced dent into sales of the Cayenne and the MB/BMW SUVs. The Model 3 will follow that trend in the $35k-$50k segment. It's not going to be a laughing matter very soon.
Just as the Model S has taken away possibly thousands of sales of the Panamera, the MB S/E classes and the BMW 5s/7s/Ms, the Model X is going to make a pronounced dent into sales of the Cayenne and the MB/BMW SUVs. The Model 3 will follow that trend in the $35k-$50k segment. It's not going to be a laughing matter very soon.
Agreed.
Tesla sales are mostly coming out from someone else's "claim", and the German premiums are a big part of that. I would add Audi hurting to your list as well.
SebastianR
Active Member
I sure hope so. I'm currently driving an Audi and I'm so angry with them: I asked them when they would get serious with electric cars and they essentially said "never". (They suggested I go down to an A3 etron for a few measly electric miles - what a joke!).
Porsche management lost BIG in their Quixotic quest to takeover VW. The Porsche "goldenboy" CEO Wendelin Wiedeking who turned around the company (and revived the iconic 911) and made it into essentially a hedge fund that made cars was canned and eventually charged with market manipulation.
Porsche: The Hedge Fund that Also Made Cars
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Oh that is a very interesting chart indeed @MartinAustin. Did you notice how many of those vehicles can be viewed as competitors, a little or a lot, with Tesla Model S / X? We already know there are lots of Leaf owners that really want a Model S, but can afford a Leaf. I don't recognize the GMC Savannah; I wouldn't put the SmartForTwo into a Model S competitor list (of course, I also wouldn't put the Leaf on the list, but I realize that people do cross shop the two) - everything else I see on that list could be viewed a little or a lot as a Tesla competitor.
Zzzz...
Member
Moreover, they essentially making other voting shares irrelevant since Porsche family created entity that decides internally on how they vote as a group.
Porsche SE, a holding company owned by the Porsche and Piech families, controls 51 percent of VW's common stock
Business Insider
But it is not like VW paid money to family, more like other way around. The whole merger was extremely complicated and took years but the end result is this: VW ended up being fully controlled by Porsche descendants. And there was tons of internal German politics involved with Merkel being most instrumental in ensuring such outcome.
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beeeerock
Active Member
Whether you respect the source or not, some interesting graphs centered on the Porsche/Tesla race: Tesla Vs. Porsche - Tales Of Growth - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha
Have a V8 Cayenne S, won't buy another one. Told friend whose been looking at getting one not get it, unfortunately they ignored my warning and worse they got a diesel one.
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