Poll: What is the 'something special' for Roadster owners from Tesla in 2014?

[bonnie]

Supercharging capabilities for Roadster is simply from marketing point of view not interesting.

So to be clear: The majority of Roadster owners are well aware that Supercharging capabilities for the Roadster is economically challenging and most are not asking for that.

What most are asking for is simply a 70amp HPC at the Supercharging locations where we can charge our Roadsters.

I want to be clear on this because I see this getting confused from investor meeting Q&A to press questions to here on the forum.

 

[Johann Koeber]

...
What most are asking for is simply a 70amp HPC at the Supercharging locations where we can charge ...

Exactly. This would really help.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

How long does it take for a Roadster to get a standard charge with a 70amp HPC?

 

[djp]

How long does it take for a Roadster to get a standard charge with a 70amp HPC?

It's just under four hours for a Range charge. On road trips I've found 2.5 hours is enough for a charging stop at 70A. I usually don't drive all the way to zero, so I'm already starting with a buffer, and I stop charging when the rate starts to taper.

 

[AudubonB]

Huh. And I thought "something special" for you Roadsterers would be to receive an external lift-inner&outer-chair for ease of cockpit entry and exit.....

 

[Doug_G]

How long does it take for a Roadster to get a standard charge with a 70amp HPC?

About 3.5 hours, depending on source voltage and whether you're going for the last couple of percent (like the Model S it slows down). Going 0 to full is probably almost 4 hours, but you'd probably only bother with a Range charge overnight.

One advantage of the Roadster compared to the Model S without Supercharging is that you effectively charge faster. Being much smaller the car takes less power so you get more miles per hour of charging at the same power.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

About 3.5 hours, depending on source voltage and whether you're going for the last couple of percent (like the Model S it slows down).

Thank you for the information Doug. :smile:

 

[772]

Indeed, Tesla will not develop all kind of features for 2500 Roadsters.
They will only develop something that helps sales for model S and future models. So only replacing existing battery cells with Model S cells brings an extension of range of about 125 miles. It seems to me it can easily be done with a small benefit for Tesla at a reasonable price.
Big message will be then: Buy a Model S because in 5 years time you will be able to make a 500 miles range upgrade as Tesla shows with Roadster upgrade.
Supercharging capabilities for Roadster is simply from marketing point of view not interesting.

I totally disagree... from a user perspective, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a smaller capacity battery that can recharge faster (from a fairly large existing charging network of SCs) than a large, heavy battery that recharges slowly (from a fairly sparse charging network of HPCs). An upgrade to the charger is as good or better than a battery upgrade from a marketing standpoint IMO. 30 minutes for ~200 miles on a MS is nice... but a roadster, being more efficient in charge to miles, should do better than that. I don't disagree that an upgraded charger would likely need an upgrade to the battery chemistry as well. If Tesla can pull both of these off, it would make a great example of how the car can be upgraded to new technology as it develops. I know that it's something that some MS buyers (and owners) are concerned about (future upgrades and how the car will hold up).

 

[PokerBroker]

Supercharger technical documents currently include infrastructure to support 70 amp charging. I expect that this will be our surprise.

 

[bonnie]

Supercharger technical documents currently include infrastructure to support 70 amp charging. I expect that this will be our surprise.

That would make trip planning sooo much easier.

 

[wiztecy]

It's fixed but was told it still hasn't rolled out yet. Should be soon though.

I had the new firmware flashed with the 80A fix in mid-dec.

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Okay, now we're talking. At one point I'd talked to someone at Tesla about this. I'd LOVE to recycle my own battery pack into backup power for my solar system when it's time to replace my battery. What a great story to be able to tell.

I honestly don't believe the Roadster's pack will ever be used as a home powersource, reason being Tesla would need the original battery cage back. Without that you just have an energy source without any backbone and I'm sure Tesla will be keeping the old sheets as well.

 

[PokerBroker]

That would make trip planning sooo much easier.

It might make more sense for them to install a Model S HPWC and simply have a MS to Roadster adapter available for sale. I would actually prefer this option to a Roadster specific 80 amp charger because it would open up the HPWC locations at Tesla galleries as well.

 

[bonnie]

While I'd like to be able to purchase the adapter, I'd rather have the Roadster-specific HPWC at the Supercharging sites. Otherwise the Model S/X/GenIII waiting for a slot would plug into the 70amp and charge there while waiting & the Roadster would never have a chance.

 

[Dave EV]

Supercharger technical documents currently include infrastructure to support 70 amp charging. I expect that this will be our surprise.

Reference? Have you seen permit plans referencing them?

 

[Marius]

I totally disagree... from a user perspective, if I had to choose, I'd rather have a smaller capacity battery that can recharge faster (from a fairly large existing charging network of SCs) than a large, heavy battery that recharges slowly (from a fairly sparse charging network of HPCs). An upgrade to the charger is as good or better than a battery upgrade from a marketing standpoint IMO. 30 minutes for ~200 miles on a MS is nice... but a roadster, being more efficient in charge to miles, should do better than that. I don't disagree that an upgraded charger would likely need an upgrade to the battery chemistry as well. If Tesla can pull both of these off, it would make a great example of how the car can be upgraded to new technology as it develops. I know that it's something that some MS buyers (and owners) are concerned about (future upgrades and how the car will hold up).

From user perspective I can agree with you but from the perspective of Tesla it is the best message to convince potential buyers of the Model S that range is not an issue anymore with battery upgrades.
Another thing you need to keep in mind is the not realistic range that Tesla claims for the Roadster. In Europe max speed on motorway is 130 km per hour which makes the real range 250km. I have done 125.000 km now and lost already more than 10% range so my practical range is about 200km. In 2 years time it will be reduced to a level that for sure I need an upgrade to keep on with electrical driving.
For replacing the battery Tesla will put something back in the car with the same weight so it does not change the telemetrie of the car. And this is the most simple way to do something for the Roadster owners.
As for the HPC charging I completely agree with you. It will cost close to nothing to put on every SC a 70A HPC charger with a Roadster connector. This would definitely be a big step forward, but the issue of degradation of the pack and the possible replacement without major changes to the Roadster brings me to the conclusion that it will be an upgrade to 80kW pack most likely.

 

[Doug_G]

Wow, an 80 kwh pack in the Roadster would let me do most of my longer trips without having to stop and recharge. That would be awesome.

 

[PokerBroker]

While an 80kwh pack is intriguing, I certainly wouldn't be shelling out $40k for it and they won't be making it free or as a loss leader.

 

[thefortunes]

Reference? Have you seen permit plans referencing them?

The plans for the Madison, WI SpC included them.

However it doesn't make sense to go BACK to the SpC locations and do that work after the fact, so I doubt that will happen.

We can certainly hope, though.

 

[bonnie]

While an 80kwh pack is intriguing, I certainly wouldn't be shelling out $40k for it and they won't be making it free or as a loss leader.

I'd be happy about this, since I'm one of the *foolish* ones who bought the battery replacement option. I'm sure I'd be able to work out a fair deal on the difference.

 

[pharma5]

While an 80kwh pack is intriguing, I certainly wouldn't be shelling out $40k for it and they won't be making it free or as a loss leader.

Absent something new in the battery area, I'd say my own "$40k" is currently waiting on adding a Gen III that will hopefully have longer range and/or supercharging since my Roadster cannot get it yet. (Ok, better make that "$50k":wink. Different if my current pack goes kaput, but I'd rather pay $40k for 80kwh than 55kwh.

But I don't know that an 80kwh Roadster pack has to be $40k out of pocket for the customer, e.g., if you are trading in an otherwise-working 55kwh pack that passes all the service tests. Maybe it's $25-30k (???) with a trade-in, which gives Tesla a more affordable refurb pack for other owners. All hypothetical.

As bonnie said there are owners who prepaid for a replacement pack at time of purchase, modeled on ~7 year timeframe. I'd certainly want a new pack if I prepaid for it (unless the agreement said otherwise)!

I've said before that the positive PR of having the Roadster range jump would be priceless on the perception side (at 80 kwh, that's ~276 ideal miles std and ~350 range). Even at $40k a few owners would get it and show it. Put a couple of those in loaner Roadsters, akin to showing the Model S P85's, or in the CPO inventory. Allow the press to drive. Over 25,000 Model S owners then look forward to potential upgrade to ~400 mile pack, circa end of warranty. Many more non-owners decide the range issue is dead. Etc.:biggrin:

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I should add that I don't currently expect the surprise to be a pack upgrade - the buzz for upgrades has been muted enough over the past year+ that it would genuinely be a surprise to me (albeit a very welcome one).

My very cloudy crystal ball says it's option 3 to remove the pilot signal issue and ultimately allow Roadsters to connect and 70A charge at all the same locations that Model S can charge. Applies both to certain J1772's as well as any Tesla-branded location. It would help bring the 'network' factor back to Roadsters, which is a big part of the value prop in the rest of the brand.