Poll: Do you plan on buying a chademo adapter?

[wayner]

I have owned my Model S for 4.5 years and haven't had need for it. And there is less need today given the SCs installed in the last few years.

Plus - I love driving my Tesla but I have no interest in ever driving more than 5 hours. That's why jetplanes were invented.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

...and are on their 2nd or 3rd batteries in doing so. My P90D has gone from 429 kms of range to 396 kms of range, a drop of 8% and it is rarely if ever charged to 100% (maybe 10 times in its life on long journeys that required it). Wonder if Tesla cares about my battery losing 8% of its life or if that's 'normal'.

Tesla Model S Review And Cost Analysis After 450,000 Miles

What are your charge settings for day to day? Sounds like you may need to deep charge the battery to recalibrate.

 

[wayner]

This is somewhat OT but in 4.5 years with my P85D my 90% charge has dropped from 364 to 385 or about 1.5%. But I have only driven 51,000km and I have charged to 100% only about 5 times or so.

 

[KootsChewt]

I heard a similar statement with regards to the Leaf many years ago. They used to offer the option to charge to a lower percentage to preserve the battery but eliminated it because the "EPA rule" was introduced and would not have allowed them to report the full charge range. I've never owned or even driven a Leaf but I vaguely recall I read this in a review from a reputable source.

I've owned a Leaf for 5 years and can confirm that the 2013 offered an 80% charge option and Nissan was 'penalized' in the range they could advertise because of it. I bought a 2014, which had that option removed, so could only charge to 100% (unless I got involved in elaborate timer games etc). Now my Leaf is at 76% of original capacity... good as a town car, but that's it.

As for the poll, as others have elaborated, I would prefer a CCS adapter as it will be capable of higher charging speeds (>120kW confirmed in EU so far), so I'm going to hold out for a bit. I travel to northern BC generally once or twice per year - I did my first trip in my 3 in May, and I passed a number of DCFC units in rest areas on Highway 5 that would have been useful. It will add a lot more flexibility in how I break up the drive into two days, rather than forcing a long 12h day from Nelson to Valemount (overnight charge at a campground), then 4h to Prince George the next day. And it will then make it a lot easier to do trips out to west to visit friends along Highway 16!

Lastly, I'm going to be 'that guy' for a moment and ask you all to PLEASE do not buy an adapter just to use 'free' charging. Free charging should not exist as it encourages bad behaviour. Use public charging only if you need it, not as a convenience or a way to save a few cents. Being from a non-Tesla background in EVs, Tesla owners can sometimes get a bad rap for plugging in when they don't need to etc. Please don't add to this problem.

 

[wayner]

Lastly, I'm going to be 'that guy' for a moment and ask you all to PLEASE do not buy an adapter just to use 'free' charging. Free charging should not exist as it encourages bad behaviour. Use public charging only if you need it, not as a convenience or a way to save a few cents. Being from a non-Tesla background in EVs, Tesla owners can sometimes get a bad rap for plugging in when they don't need to etc. Please don't add to this problem.

In theory I agree with you but in practice I think that anyone with an EV should use "free" charging at least when there are lots of spots. I work in downtown Toronto right in the financial core and take the train most of the time, but when I do drive I often use the "free" chargers in the office complexes. Most of the larger underground parking garages (First Canadian Place, Brookfield Place, Richmond-Adelaide Centre, One York, etc) have a dozen or more chargers and they are located in A1 positions right near the entrance to the garage. They are primarily occupied by EV drivers - the one that I frequent has a minority of Teslas and often also has Porsches, Audios, BMWs, Mercedes, etc. Some of these are hybrid EVs. These parking garages charge about $32/day to charge - so why shouldn't I avail myself of the free electricity?

But I do agree that free charging, especially at workplaces, is a bad idea as it incents EV owners to charge during the day which adds to peak demand, rather than during the night when demand is low.

 

[bwalter]

But I do agree that free charging, especially at workplaces, is a bad idea as it incents EV owners to charge during the day which adds to peak demand, rather than during the night when demand is low.

I don't have as much of an issue with free workplace charging and am not concerned with peak demand. Besides, renewable tend to be most plentiful during the day and peak demand is not during the day, it's when people get home from work. There are some L2 chargers like that around my work, but they aren't public and require a parking pass and only tenants of certain buildings have access (managed by Chargepoint.)

It's free charging at malls & mixed use complexes that I'm not a fan of. My son's daycare is in a complex that has 2 residential towers and a bunch of commercial, including a grocery store, liquor store, gym and drugstore. The 2 L2 chargers there seem to be in use all the time. I think they should charge just a bit more (10-20%) than home charging costs, so they end up used by people who can't charge at home.

Similarly the L2 chargers at my local Ikea tend to be heavily used, at least on weekends, plus it's 2 chargers with 4 heads that share, so even if you get a spot, you'll probably end up getting just 3.3kW which isn't all that useful. I get that Ikea may be wanting to attract people with the free charging, but if everyone were charging around what home charging costs, they'd still be attracting people who can't home charge, or perhaps only have L1 at home.

L3 should also be charged, a bit more than L2, maybe 50% more than home charging. I'd like to see them available for people that need them because they are traveling or don't have home charging.

Of course, this is my view for the Vancouver BC area, where it seems the adoption of plug-ins is pretty high now. Free charging isn't really an incentive if you can't find any chargers that aren't in use. For areas without much demand, I'm fine with free charging.

 

[SammichLover]

Being from a non-Tesla background in EVs, Tesla owners can sometimes get a bad rap for plugging in when they don't need to

A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla.

I’ve heard these complaints (not about me directly) and they come off a lot like envy about the BEV that isn’t always at a point of desperation in requiring charge, and also has some very high speed options that aren’t accessible to non-Teslas.

 

[525SNAP]

Hell no, I looked at that price tag and it's totally unnecessary.

Though if $$ isn't an issue then...can't have too many adapters I guess

 

[SammichLover]

But I do agree that free charging, especially at workplaces, is a bad idea as it incents EV owners to charge during the day which adds to peak demand, rather than during the night when demand is low.

Peak demand varies by region, but is rarely at peak in the morning or early afternoon. As solar production % of grid rises this will become even more the case. You can see in parts of CA where the “duck” has a surplus during most of the regular office work day.

 

[wayner]

It looks like peak hour in Ontario, at least on hot days, is around 1600-1700 which likely coincides with highest usage of Air Conditioning. But I guess you are correct that workplace charging isn't going to add to that as folks will either be leaving their workplace at that time, or their cars will have charged up over the previous 8 hours.

It is true that more solar is produced during the day, but solar is still a tiny part of the grid in Canada. And solar is the smallest piece of renewables - hydro and wind are way bigger and don't vary with time of day by very much.

When shifting demand wouldn't the ideal situation would be to minimize the CO2 emissions? This would still call for charging overnight when there is lots of excess power from stuff like hydro and nukes (at least in Ontario). During the daytime any marginal demand for electricity leads to burning Natural Gas, at least in Ontario. In other provinces it probably leads to burning coal. Marginal demand during the night is unlikely to add to CO2 emissions in areas with lots of excess hydro-power or nuclear - that is why I think we should be pushing people to charge at night.

 

[wayner]

Peak demand varies by region, but is rarely at peak in the morning or early afternoon. As solar production % of grid rises this will become even more the case. You can see in parts of CA where the “duck” has a surplus during most of the regular office work day.

But solar is still a tiny fraction of the generation in Canada and that is likely to remain the case for many years. I am just going by the Gridwatch service and keeping an eye on CO2 emissions. These are very low overnight when nukes and hydro can handle 100% of demand in Ontario.

 

[SammichLover]

It looks like peak hour in Ontario, at least on hot days, is around 1600-1700 which likely coincides with highest usage of Air Conditioning.

I expect you’re look at the summer numbers there. Non-summer hours the peak will be suppertime.

And yes most charging will be done by then anyway and on the unlikely chance it isn’t it is easy enough for the work to put those on a timer to avoid that peak. There is usually big money in avoiding usage at peak hours.

 

[SammichLover]

But solar is still a tiny fraction of the generation in Canada and that is likely to remain the case for many years. I am just going by the Gridwatch service and keeping an eye on CO2 emissions. These are very low overnight when nukes and hydro can handle 100% of demand in Ontario.

Work charging is going to be needed to supplement for those that lack street or home options.

It also makes “commuter” sized batteries far more viable in cold climates.

Non-optimal but don’t let perfect be the enemy of improvement.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Work charging is going to be needed to supplement for those that lack street or home options.

It also makes “commuter” sized batteries far more viable in cold climates.

Non-optimal but don’t let perfect be the enemy of improvement.

Mass availability of workplace / public L2 stations would make PHEV and BEVs the go to vs ICE. At the end of the day, people want to spend less and save money where they can.

 

[wayner]

I expect you’re look at the summer numbers there. Non-summer hours the peak will be suppertime.

And yes most charging will be done by then anyway and on the unlikely chance it isn’t it is easy enough for the work to put those on a timer to avoid that peak. There is usually big money in avoiding usage at peak hours.

Yes those are summer. I was looking for really high demand days, and we had those in the last few days as it has been very hot. I was interested in seeing what it looked like for the highest demand days to see the "peakiest" parts of the curve.

IMHO the reason many office buildings put in these chargers is to get LEED points so that they can promote their building as LEED Gold or LEED Platinum. That is desirable for tenants and can allow them to charge a slight premium in rent.

 

[MexiCanuck]

In BC, the aspects of peak hours or low rates don't apply. Electricity rates don't vary by time of day. The electricity is hydro generated so production can be varied throughout the day and night based on demand.

I suggest the issue of plugging in varies in consideration of demand. I wouldn't be likely to plug in at a high demand location unless I really needed to charge, like when on a trip. On the other hand, I try to make a point of plugging in near my office. I do this because there is a Level 2 charger that I rarely see used. I'm concerned that if it remains at low usage that it might be removed.

 

[SammichLover]

In BC, the aspects of peak hours or low rates don't apply. Electricity rates don't vary by time of day. The electricity is hydro generated so production can be varied throughout the day and night based on demand.

Incorrect, they still apply to commercial businesses with as little as 35kW peak usage. Even a single stall, standalone 50kW Chademo/CCS, by definition, exceeds that.

General Service Business Rates

While being able program hydro to time of day helps a lot on the production side, peak production capability and peak transmission capacity remain bottlenecks that need to be paid for.

 

[SammichLover]

For clarity, the line item involved is "Demand Charge". It isn't time-of-day linked per se. However if you're using power for other things in a peak way (like A/C late afternoon, being the example) and you put BEV charging on top of that in an significant way you'll be paying $5 and up per kW of extra above what would otherwise be your 15 min interval peak.

 

[MexiCanuck]

For clarity, the line item involved is "Demand Charge".

That’s “Ontario-specific”, right?

 

[SammichLover]

That’s “Ontario-specific”, right?

Am I grossly misreading the BC Hydro page I linked?