How so? And what is the root of the issue? Excessive negative rear camber or something else?
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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
How so? And what is the root of the issue? Excessive negative rear camber or something else?
Only because this subset of owners thinks it is.
it is an alignment issue, plain and simple. it is not a ford+Firestone defect as some would like it to be.
Toe. All the toe.
Camber without toe isn’t a tire killer. Add in the tendency of teslas to toe out upon acceleration and woooahhhhhhhh wiped tire edge.
I don't get it. Toe is fixable in alignment and the rear toe tie rods on the refresh have way more range than the Raven and before. And camber prior to refresh alone was a tire killer on the 21" wheels. There are literally dozens of threads with thousands of posts on the issue.
My prior to refresh S(19,20,21s) and X (20s and 22s) never had camber wiping tires issues. They had toe wiping tires issues. Removing the toe and leaving the -1.5 to -2.4deg camber never wiped a tire. Even while towing with the X.
A tesla under acceleration will toe out. Magically everyone with a 1000hp tesla wears out rear tires. Woahhhh I wonder what could have ever caused this.
This is E39M5 ownerbase all over again, 23+ years later.
My prior to refresh S(19,20,21s) and X (20s and 22s) never had camber wiping tires issues. They had toe wiping tires issues. Removing the toe and leaving the -1.5 to -2.4deg camber never wiped a tire. Even while towing with the X.
A tesla under acceleration will toe out. Magically everyone with a 1000hp tesla wears out rear tires. Woahhhh I wonder what could have ever caused this.
This is E39M5 ownerbase all over again, 23+ years later.
My MXP's rear camber was -2.4 on each side on low. Toe was nearly neutral with just the slightest toe out. The factory summer tires were down to the cord on the inside within 8K miles with the outside down only a few 32nds from new.
Had the same problem on my P85D but it wasn't as severe because camber was -1.7. Fixed that with adjustable upper arms bringing that into -1.2 on each side.
This MXP alignment destroyed my rear tires due to the -2.3 to -2.4 camber.
You answered your X wiping tires. Toe out + accel = more toe out = wiped tires. Gimme some numbers of what your rear toe was actually set to. You can do degrees or inches or millimeters, you’ll see your problem immediately.
Yes you mitigated your S by bandaiding it. You didn’t solve the problem, you kicked the can down the road. Much like those that rotate tires to get all the use out of them rather than fix what caused the abnormal wear pattern on that corner/end of the car. You “turned down the volume” on the wear by pulling camber out of this vehicle. You could have left the camber and changed the toe and would have seen the lack of wear, too.
A hundred incorrect threads doesn't make the issue something that it isn’t. Average owner sees wear, reads the echo chamber threads and gobbles up what’s been regurgitated over and over and OVER. toe will destroy a tire quickly, camber will shorten its life, camber AND toe will wipe tread off like a belt sander. I’ve got a track toy that’ll show that one to ya, but I’ve also got another track toy that has zero toe and -3.2* of camber… guess how those tires wear
The tesla air suspension and arm geometry aren’t magic. These are issues every German car (in the last few decades) has had and every forum cries about.
Incorrect. Toe out decreases under power, no the other way around. The wheels get pulled forward during acceleration relative to the cradle. Toe in results in more toe in during acceleration, not the other way around.
Look at the alignment sheet I posted with the previous post. The rear toe alignment is perfect.
I’ll go ahead and disagree with ya. And stop ya there, I’m good. Not here to convince you… frankly don’t care that the fart sniffers live in their echo chamber.
Ah. I see your ninja edited pic. Lol you think .2deg IN is “perfect” ?! Are you nuts? I need some of these drugs you’re on. As I suspected, you answered your own question on why you wiped rear tires.
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I’ll go ahead and disagree with ya. And stop ya there, I’m good. Not here to convince you… frankly don’t care that the fart sniffers live in their echo chamber.
Ah. I see your ninja edited pic. Lol you think .2deg IN is “perfect” ?! Are you nuts? I need some of these drugs you’re on. As I suspected, you answered your own question on why you wiped rear tires.
Yes. This is perfect for an axel under power. You're confusing non driven axels with driven. On driven axels, wheels move forward under acceleration rotating clockwise (looking down) on the left and counterclockwise on the right. Non driven wheels do just the opposite slightly. When braking, all 4 wheels toe out even more. Front much more.
You can go on believing whatever you want. It doesn't make you right.
“My alignment is perfect because it’s within factory specs for tire killing and not owner killing. I will disagree with the truth because it doesn’t fit my into echo chamber” - @sorka probably.
hint: it’s IN. Wheels go out under accel because math… bushing deflection…
Yeah, the truth totally doesn’t make me right… but it sure keeps my tires perfect.
would love to know how much experience you have with aligning vehicles. But also… I couldn’t care less if I tried.
Congrats tho, you played yourself.
do you think that positive toe is out?
hint: it’s IN. Wheels go out under accel because math… bushing deflection…Yeah, the truth totally doesn’t make me right… but it sure keeps my tires perfect.
would love to know how much experience you have with aligning vehicles. But also… I couldn’t care less if I tried.
Congrats tho, you played yourself.
Yawn. https://gprivate.com/6945i
How far should we go back to realize that all these results aren’t lying? 2005 in a dsm forum? 2yrs ago on Reddit?
Echo chambers are wild. Especially ones where it’s obviously someone’s first vehicle that wasn’t an econobox meant for mpg and not saving it’s owner from their own right foot and ham fisted driving.
How far should we go back to realize that all these results aren’t lying? 2005 in a dsm forum? 2yrs ago on Reddit?
Echo chambers are wild. Especially ones where it’s obviously someone’s first vehicle that wasn’t an econobox meant for mpg and not saving it’s owner from their own right foot and ham fisted driving.
No offense, but you're using technical terms in the incorrect context throughout multiple posts. Usually this means someone is googling a topic and regurgitating verbiage without understanding application of those terms.
It's a fairly common occurrence I experience at work when someone believes their ability to use google trumps my PhD.
“My alignment is perfect because it’s within factory specs for tire killing and not owner killing. I will disagree with the truth because it doesn’t fit my into echo chamber” - @sorka probably.
do you think that positive toe is out?
Yeah, the truth totally doesn’t make me right… but it sure keeps my tires perfect.
would love to know how much experience you have with aligning vehicles. But also… I couldn’t care less if I tried.
Congrats tho, you played yourself.
So when you thought my toe was toe out, you insisted that was the problem. Then you saw my alignment sheet and that it's actually toe in yet you previously insisted that acceleration results in more toe out. I said the opposite. I was wrong. Normally this is true unless you have a suspension design that compensates. The S/X rear suspension integral link does just that by evenly distributing braking and acceleration forces between the control arms so that your alignment doesn't drastically change but as you said, it does toe out duration acceleration because as the hub is pulled forward, the hub itself rotates out slightly because the integral link pulls it in on the back.
So if my toe in (positive) becomes more toe out (less positive) during acceleration (as you said), there's no way toe is causing rapid tire wear. Also, if it was just toe, then you'd have rapid tire wear across the entire tread width, not just the inside only. This is why decreasing camber with the aftermarket solutions (arms or shims) to something reasonable solves the problem.
If the issue in this thread was primarily toe and not negative camber, it would be easily fixed with the current refresh. How many members in this thread had their tire wear issue fixed after alignment?
Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. Thankfully I can point and laugh on this fine Sunday morning while letting you sniff farts from your echo chamber.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
That’s exactly what i said it is, mainly a toe problem, unlike the previous gen which just had camber wear. why did you disagree with me?
Wut?
Every. Single. (Air suspension) Tesla. Has. Toe. Issues. From the factory. As the alignment is set to not end the driver that cannot drive.
Plaid, legacy, facelift, X of all flavors…
Y’all try to blame camber and insist I'm saying what you’re saying… I’m not. Camber can be -2.5deg in the rear, but if the toe is literally ZERO you’re not scrubbing that tire. .2deg in (with any amount of NEG camber) is wiping the inner edges.
So yes, you were disagreed with, because you were/are wrong. Can you show me on the tesla where that hurt you?
trimotor
Member
Not sure I want to join this, umm, debate, but I'm quite certain toe out causes inner tire wear, regardless of camber. Extra negative camber just makes inner wear worse. A smidge of toe in on the rear gives stability - toe out in the rear can make a very unstable car under acceleration out of a corner. C7 Corvette Z06's were notably twitchy with toe out under bump/hard acceleration. Fix the bump steer (that is, toe changes with ride height changes) with proper caster settings and you have a happy, stable car with good tire wear.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I'm not sure how this issue could all be about toe settings but not affect the 19" wheels?
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