Law&Disorder
Member
I'm coming out of a BMW M5 and I think the P85D suspension is very comfortable and even a little floaty. We'll see how I feel when I mount my new set of aftermarket 21"s next week.
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P85D (pre/post April) ride performance
- Thread starter marty2112
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
So I drove more recent P85D the other day that was produced after April and it's in fact too soft for my tastes. My hair is turning golden with curls but there doesn't appear to be something that is just right
So I drove more recent P85D the other day that was produced after April and it's in fact too soft for my tastes. My hair is turning golden with curls but there doesn't appear to be something that is just right
So Tesla dropped the previously included plus-package in the P85D (staggered wheels, stiffer suspension),
but they forgot to tell us about it and they also forgot to drop the price.
mkspeedr
Member
I will compare my P85D (I am picking it up this week) with my Dad's (December 2014 delivery) over the 4th of July weekend. I am preparing myself for disappointment.
mkspeedr
Member
My P85D front sway bar is 28mm.
I didn't measure the back yet. 4mm is a huge difference given how non linear it is as you reduce the thickness.
3/31 build.
19" wheels.
SAS.
I'm surprised this is the first I've heard of the removal of the high performance suspension. I wonder why Tesla has such a problem communicating? It almost seems like it is on purpose...
I guess I lucked out with my February P85D. I managed to get the plus suspension, staggered wheels, next gen rear seats, dual chargers, and a heated steering wheel. Still a great car even without the features they removed. It is going to make it hard to trade in if some of those features don't return.
I guess I lucked out with my February P85D. I managed to get the plus suspension, staggered wheels, next gen rear seats, dual chargers, and a heated steering wheel. Still a great car even without the features they removed. It is going to make it hard to trade in if some of those features don't return.
P85D build after 30 april have the same suspension as 70D and 85D. The picture only show the air suspension modules, but also the air dampers ++ have the same note.
Very happy my car was produced before so I did not get the soft boat feel suspension that 85D and P85 has.
Anybody having originally test driven the 60063522-07-A / 6006353-07-A parts, might feel comfortable bringing it up with Tesla. I would. This isn't you getting Conti, instead of Michelon, and I don't know how much room Tesla has to claim latitude on "improved" parts, if the spring rates are physically different and they still OE replace them. That's a preference thing, and companies don't generally go changing spring rates between a customer's test drive, and what they deliver.
It would be nice to side by side early/newer P85D, load their trunks, to see how much weight it takes to lower the back/frunk 1"(or double a half inch). Last I checked, "spring rate" is defined as the amount of weight required for one inch of deflection. Not sure how to defeat compensating adjustments the SAS might make.
Thanks. I should qualify my 24/20 measurements as front/back, of a 3/15 coil P85D. Early/late SAS could be different. I don't think sways matter as much, in feel, when the both sides of the axle go up and down. Deeper potholes and one-sided bumps would probably be where 28mm could show up as stiff.
[EDIT: 4mm is big. It would be huge, if we were talking about torsion bar springs.]
It would be nice to side by side early/newer P85D, load their trunks, to see how much weight it takes to lower the back/frunk 1"(or double a half inch). Last I checked, "spring rate" is defined as the amount of weight required for one inch of deflection. Not sure how to defeat compensating adjustments the SAS might make.
Thanks. I should qualify my 24/20 measurements as front/back, of a 3/15 coil P85D. Early/late SAS could be different. I don't think sways matter as much, in feel, when the both sides of the axle go up and down. Deeper potholes and one-sided bumps would probably be where 28mm could show up as stiff.
[EDIT: 4mm is big. It would be huge, if we were talking about torsion bar springs.]
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Yes, this would a great experiment. It must be done in jack mode though so that the auto leveling will be disabled. I have a gym with dumbbells and plates for an olympic barbell and will see how much it takes to lower the front and back end by an amount that can be reasonably measured, say an an inch.
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Rough roads in general will be effected by the stiffness of the sways bars, not just pot holes. Any road conditions where the road is uneven. If the roads are smooth, then it almost doesn't matter how stiff the anti roll bars are or what the spring rate is. About the only thing where the sway bar stiffness wouldn't matter are speed bumps and expansion joints but that those road characteristics are not where my beef has been. It's been on slightly uneven roads with bumps.
sataponw
Member
Sorka! I have been reading your comments on this and the other thread and I have exactly the same experience as you with my P85D. I can feel every road imperfection (even the ones I can't see) when I drive.
I actually feel like it is getting worse everyday (or maybe it's just because I got a P85+ loaner and realize that my car is abnormally harsh).
At this point I hope the car has a faulty suspension and can get it fixed but then I don't have high hope given all the other comments. My SC kept saying that it's normal too.
I actually feel like it is getting worse everyday (or maybe it's just because I got a P85+ loaner and realize that my car is abnormally harsh).
At this point I hope the car has a faulty suspension and can get it fixed but then I don't have high hope given all the other comments. My SC kept saying that it's normal too.
I doubt there's anything mechanically wrong with the suspension. But it's quite possible that they respeced or changed suppliers and the results were a far stiffer harsher less compliant ride than they expected. They have, after all, switched to something much softer since April.
The other possibility is the installation of the shock into the air spring on the front. The spring rate will be determined by how far you insert and mount the male end of the shock into the air spring. The further in you go, the more air you have to use to raise the car to x height. If inserting 2" less, then the air spring can be collapsed by 2" to achieve that same height of x but the springrate will be slower/softer.
The shock and air spring are two different parts and the shock has to be inserted and bound into the air spring.
The extra harsh ride is a concern to me for several reasons:
1) Handling - Pre April PD's are so stiff that the car will lose traction when flying around corners where there are any bumps. It's perfect as a track car on a perfectly smooth racetrack, but not suitable for street driving.
2) Creaks and rattles - The level of stiffness will shake things apart and increase the creaks and rattles much more than a more compliant ride. I fully expect to have more panorama roof issues because of it.
3) Mechanical safety - The level of firmness makes me worried about metal fatigue of the curved steering knuckle over time. Because it's extremely curved, forces exerted from below do not transfer straight up and down but rather inward, up, and then back out. If you look at the knuckle, you'll see that if you compress it from top and bottom, it must eventually bend if you apply enough force unlike a straight link which won't bend. Axles where the hub attaches will fatigue faster. We've already seen several cases where P85D wheels have flown off when hitting seemingly shallow pot holes.
The other possibility is the installation of the shock into the air spring on the front. The spring rate will be determined by how far you insert and mount the male end of the shock into the air spring. The further in you go, the more air you have to use to raise the car to x height. If inserting 2" less, then the air spring can be collapsed by 2" to achieve that same height of x but the springrate will be slower/softer.
The shock and air spring are two different parts and the shock has to be inserted and bound into the air spring.
The extra harsh ride is a concern to me for several reasons:
1) Handling - Pre April PD's are so stiff that the car will lose traction when flying around corners where there are any bumps. It's perfect as a track car on a perfectly smooth racetrack, but not suitable for street driving.
2) Creaks and rattles - The level of stiffness will shake things apart and increase the creaks and rattles much more than a more compliant ride. I fully expect to have more panorama roof issues because of it.
3) Mechanical safety - The level of firmness makes me worried about metal fatigue of the curved steering knuckle over time. Because it's extremely curved, forces exerted from below do not transfer straight up and down but rather inward, up, and then back out. If you look at the knuckle, you'll see that if you compress it from top and bottom, it must eventually bend if you apply enough force unlike a straight link which won't bend. Axles where the hub attaches will fatigue faster. We've already seen several cases where P85D wheels have flown off when hitting seemingly shallow pot holes.
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jerjozwik
Active Member
The strut is what bears the weight "straight up", I think, not the knuckle that it is right next to. That might just control the travel.
I didn't know whether the air sprung cars can adjust their compression (spring rate), depending upon which car they are in. If not, than both spring and damp rates are the same for all newer air suspension D's, like people are saying.
I don't believe other makers let people test drive their cars, then change suspensions to something standard, and deliver that instead. I sympathize with these people the most. At some point, Tesla's slack runs out.
Yup. You're right about that. Mental goof on my part.
However, lets not confused compression rate with spring rate. The compression and rebound rate is controlled by the shock(not strut in this setup) and the spring rate controlled by the air bag. The shock is not adjustable which is unheard of in a sports sedan in this price range or even half the price range. In fact, the only electronically adjustable suspension component is the amount of fill in the air spring bag.
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http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/honestly-i-cant-even-believe-im-writing
Took me 30 minutes to find that one again. There were at least two others in the last 6 months where the wheel fell off or a suspension component completely snapped.
That link describes a rear issue, where you are talking about the front knuckle. Did you mean a different link? There is some food for thought in that thread, about rear suspension work not being done properly, leading to a failure in the arms.
As far as the air spring, I know so little about how that works, but because of the name, I thought "more air = higher spring rate". Another argument for the coil suspension is that there are already after market (coil spring) windings for model S, and it is only a matter of time before some body, perhaps Bilstein, offers a variety of cartridges to suit the damping tastes of different drivers. Maybe they'll offer a whole strut, instead of an insert, but flexibility is part of the reason to go with the coils. It's how most suspensions are made.
We can talk about adjustable shocks (air, or coil) until we're blue. Right now, Tesla is getting away from even working with a second one (for 70 thru P85D SAS). They approach a coil suspension like Steve Jobs did mp3. It invites preference and makes the ingredients more of a commodity. That doesn't work, when you want control.
As far as the air spring, I know so little about how that works, but because of the name, I thought "more air = higher spring rate". Another argument for the coil suspension is that there are already after market (coil spring) windings for model S, and it is only a matter of time before some body, perhaps Bilstein, offers a variety of cartridges to suit the damping tastes of different drivers. Maybe they'll offer a whole strut, instead of an insert, but flexibility is part of the reason to go with the coils. It's how most suspensions are made.
We can talk about adjustable shocks (air, or coil) until we're blue. Right now, Tesla is getting away from even working with a second one (for 70 thru P85D SAS). They approach a coil suspension like Steve Jobs did mp3. It invites preference and makes the ingredients more of a commodity. That doesn't work, when you want control.
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Wait, so what's the point of going to low at high speeds, just better efficiency (less drag?).
I'm not a car guy and am having trouble following this thread. My P85D was manufactured in June 2015. I do feel the car is a bit soft for my taste and probably softer than the P85D that I test drove. Is there an easy way to figure out what suspension I have? I do have air suspension.
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