Ktowntslafan
Member
This article just out:
Canada failing to market itself to auto makers, expert says - The Globe and Mail
Canada failing to market itself to auto makers, expert says - The Globe and Mail
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Ktowntslafan
Member
Anyone on Twitter that cares to join in-policy is fresh...may be able to get Tesla back in-need some green pressure:
Ktowntslafan on Twitter:
You won't get a change anyways. The policy makers have made up their mind and a change now would be seen as back tracking. Not only that it would be back tracking to help the wealthy, twice as bad. Again divisiveness... Something the left has always preached against.
Ktowntslafan
Member
We need more then this policy change-we need an immediate cultural shift away from "special interest groups" and "back room deals". Our planet depends on it-that's what COP21 was all about.
Tesla is clearly the changemaker and should be supported with citizens tax dollars. If these EVIP changes are the result of lobbying all of us should be very angry-and we should take action.
Having said that, I don't want to hurt Tesla, so will change direction if requested (what's really at stake here...$3k?)
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Re: My approach-rather timid when you consider Elon's:
On Tuesday, under pressure from the New Jersey auto dealer lobby to protect its monopoly, the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission, composed of political appointees of the Governor, ended your right to purchase vehicles at a manufacturer store within the state. Governor Christie had promised that this would be put to a vote of the elected state legislature, which is the appropriate way to change the law. When it became apparent to the auto dealer lobby that this approach would not succeed, they cut a backroom deal with the Governor to circumvent the legislative process and pass a regulation that is fundamentally contrary to the intent of the law.
To the People of New Jersey | Tesla Motors
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Breezy
Member
The changes were influenced by lobbying, no doubt. Most things are. But this looks like a government initiative driven by a desire to take action on climate.
The most important thing is that more electric vehicles (that includes plug-in hybrids) are put on the roads as soon as possible. I think this program will help achieve that. Ultimately the Model 3 may be the largest beneficiary, but that depends on how quickly Tesla gets them into production.
They are still providing an incentive on vehicles up to $150,000. Typically, where this sort of cap has been set in other jurisdictions, it has been set at a much lower prices than $75k or $150k.
The most important thing is that more electric vehicles (that includes plug-in hybrids) are put on the roads as soon as possible. I think this program will help achieve that. Ultimately the Model 3 may be the largest beneficiary, but that depends on how quickly Tesla gets them into production.
They are still providing an incentive on vehicles up to $150,000. Typically, where this sort of cap has been set in other jurisdictions, it has been set at a much lower prices than $75k or $150k.
Ktowntslafan
Member
Full Circle:
New York Times: A Car Dealers Won’t Sell: It’s Electric - Page 11
Tesla deserves a level playing field. Lest we forget:
Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interesting idea.
For starters, Ontario doesn't seem to include shipping and prep fees, so Tesla could raise those from $1,300 to $1,900 in exchange for dropping the list price by $600. Supercharging could be a $4,000 option on the base model. NAV and certain other features could be optional, like when they were tied to the Tech package. Too bad for the exchange rate as you mention. Shedding $10,000 wouldn't be too hard, but it currently requires $-20,301. Could they bring back the 60 kWh pack? However, if there were a $74,999 Tesla, Ontario would probably lower the cutoff to $65,000 or whatever MSRP the Pacifica ends up with.
One of the things I like about Tesla and Elon's approach is that the vision is to create something different. I'm an android guy but Apple is similar in the approach. For example the Falcon doors in the Model X - any other car company would have drop this. I mean it wasn't necessary and would have helped to lower the cost but when you see this vehicle you realize how important the door is to the design. I think this is why folks who buy a Model S or X will continue to be ambassadors for the company. Ultimately it's this vision and foresight that's going to take the company into the future.
I don't believe they should lower the quality by taking away features to make this car cheaper. This is the reason why they are making a model 3. Same reason why BMW has a three series. The masses will drive a three series. Those who can afford it will buy an X or S. Their never going to sell as much S or X as a three series. The reason why you and I bought a model s wasn't because it was cheap. It's because we either believe in the company or loved the product.
It's unfortunate that future buyers will no longer get the full $8,500 rebate but the news last week was terrific for the model 3 viability. $14,000 off the price of a model 3 is freaking awesome for the future of the company.
If I was Elon I would be thinking about how to get this car to market now.
My thoughts.
Examples?
The only similar restrictions I'm aware of are based on income, not price. So, for instance you might not qualify for a rebate on any car if you earn over $150,000/year. In California, I met an i3 driver at a dual CCS/CHAdeMO station. He told me he trades in his cars every 1.5 years. It would obviously be cheaper and greener to purchase a Tesla and keep it 4+ years, yet the Ontario program actually encourages his behavior.
Ktowntslafan
Member
This is the issue that needs to be addressed. If gut is correct, then EVIP will change again when Model 3 starts to ship. Best solution IMO: Tesla set-up shop in Ontario-CAD $$$ is huge advantage at the moment.
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Back to COP21: If we do not support this man's efforts, at least on par with everyone else, what does that say about us as a society? All of our environmental political leaders attended COP21. I sent this talk to Glen Murray, Catherine McKenna and many others, all positive engagements (likes/retweets)-total reach 60,000+. The recent changes to EVIP are punitive to Tesla and make no environmental sense.
Please take the time to watch:
ELON MUSK SPEAKING @COP21 12/02/15
http://youtu.be/BMskI6G9ty0
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Breezy
Member
Ktowntslafan
Member
Support for article above from outside Tesla community:
8% lease rate...come on! Many EV's not available in Ontario...who are we kidding? BIG AUTO DOES NOT WANT TO ELECTRIFY! FULL STOP!
If Ontario is serious about reducing GHG emissions, let's follow California's ZEV model...and force manufacturers to meet emissions targets.
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That's not the best example because the Federal tax rebate is still available for all EVs. The overall cut is much more brutal in Ontario.
Rebate on a 30k EV : Seattle, $ 10,500 combined. Toronto, $13,000.
Rebate on a 75k EV : Seattle, $7,500. Toronto, $3,000.
Also, until July 2015 you would have been eligible for $15,000 off combined on a 75k vehicle in Washington.
As you know, we're in the midst of frigid temperatures in Eastern Canada. Many of the PHEV's that have had their Ontario rebates increased are incapable of driving without polluting heavily in these conditions. For example, the Volt's gas engine turns on for heat when it's below -10C, even if you don't want or need it. The etron may not even start in today's temps according to Audi.
I
Ktowntslafan
Member
More info re: what's really going on, non-Tesla source: The REAL reason why GM limited '16 Volt sales to the CARB states?
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Let's hear what the lobbyists (CVMA) have to say about California's backward policy:
However, policies that force consumer technology purchase decisions, like a ZEV mandate, impact the selection and availability of vehicles for sale in Quebec, without first considering and addressing Quebecers' automotive needs, driving range, pocketbook, or access to re-charging at work, to get to work or wherever else they need to travel. Collaborative approaches that support rather than limit Quebecers' choice would accelerate electric vehicle adoption and help our shared effort to reduce on-road greenhouse gas emissions.
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/canadian-vehicle-manufacturers-react-to-todays-quebec-plan-of-action-on-transportation-electrification-announcement-531738401.html
Look familiar? $20M for charging, increase EVIP for member vehicles-reduce for Tesla. Hmmm...conflict of interest? It's like OPEC advising how we should reduce our dependence on oil.
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Breezy
Member
I drove around town yesterday in -13C weather and used 6.29 L/100km. I would argue that doesn't qualify as polluting heavily.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
I tend to look at hybrids as just 'light cigarettes' as opposed to regulars (standard ICE). It's still smoking and still unsafe for health. Polluting is polluting no matter the amount!
We we have a hybrid Highlander and I used to feel good about polluting less (6.7/7.3l/100) for a 7 passenger hauler...and then realized it's laughable at patting myself on the back for smoking 'light' rather than quitting!
I also realize that there is an environmental cost to producing LIon batteries as well damage upon disposal so EV tech is not all that perfect yet either but another step in the evolution of greener sustainable energy!
We we have a hybrid Highlander and I used to feel good about polluting less (6.7/7.3l/100) for a 7 passenger hauler...and then realized it's laughable at patting myself on the back for smoking 'light' rather than quitting!
I also realize that there is an environmental cost to producing LIon batteries as well damage upon disposal so EV tech is not all that perfect yet either but another step in the evolution of greener sustainable energy!
Ktowntslafan
Member
Great analogy!
Further: Big Auto=Big Tobacco and Tesla=Surgeon General.
Where should we direct our tax dollars to help us "butt out".
High-ranking provincial politicians toured the Canadian International Auto Show in Toronto pointing out all the ONTARIO-MADE vehicles that qualify for their "improved" EV incentive program. I'm not aware that they even saw the Tesla display. Although the government is interested in reduced pollution, it's probably more interested in cars made in Ontario.
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