The NSW article said published 1st Nov 2022 though, and I think someone (here?) mentioned it before too. Unless I misunderstood your statement?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
-
Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
NSW EV charging master plan
- Thread starter moa999
- Start date
Chuq
Active Member
I recently wrote this on another forum, regarding questions on how Tesla will meet the requirements - most of it has probably been said before, but I thought it was worth including here as a summary:
---
The big advantage of Tesla supercharger hardware is that it the design is uniform and broadly consistent the world over (with minor variations in the connector at the end, and sometimes there is a second connector).
This design consistency makes them one of the most reliable, and also cheapest per stall. They're not going to compromise either of these by coming up with a new design with credit card readers, or with Chademo plugs, just for New South Wales.
I was wondering how they were going to meet the terms of the grant, but there are a few possible options:
The first is that they negotiated their way out of all or some of it, due to other advantages. For example, they'll be able to install twice as many CCS2 stalls as other grant recipients for the same money.
The requirement for two stalls to be 350 kW and two stalls to be 175 kW: Having *all* stalls be 250 kW is a reasonable compromise. Especially as the 350/175 kW was clearly written based on Tritium products. Alternatively, it's possible they would swap a couple of stalls for the V4 stalls but these haven't even hit the USA yet, they're a year or two away from here.
The requirement for credit card terminals – could be negotiated away, but if they are implemented they would definitely not be in the charging stall itself. They could get a stand alone payment terminal with a paywave reader, enter stall number, swipe card, the relevant stall then activates.
The requirement for Chademo – most likely could be negotiated away, but if they have to provide it, I can only imagine they'll install 1 or 2 third party units at the same site.
I also saw the interview on the Ludicrous Feed channel, where the reps from the NSW Government said that they would meet all the requirements, but it could be that they were put on the spot during that interview, and just assumed that was the case.
---
The big advantage of Tesla supercharger hardware is that it the design is uniform and broadly consistent the world over (with minor variations in the connector at the end, and sometimes there is a second connector).
This design consistency makes them one of the most reliable, and also cheapest per stall. They're not going to compromise either of these by coming up with a new design with credit card readers, or with Chademo plugs, just for New South Wales.
I was wondering how they were going to meet the terms of the grant, but there are a few possible options:
The first is that they negotiated their way out of all or some of it, due to other advantages. For example, they'll be able to install twice as many CCS2 stalls as other grant recipients for the same money.
The requirement for two stalls to be 350 kW and two stalls to be 175 kW: Having *all* stalls be 250 kW is a reasonable compromise. Especially as the 350/175 kW was clearly written based on Tritium products. Alternatively, it's possible they would swap a couple of stalls for the V4 stalls but these haven't even hit the USA yet, they're a year or two away from here.
The requirement for credit card terminals – could be negotiated away, but if they are implemented they would definitely not be in the charging stall itself. They could get a stand alone payment terminal with a paywave reader, enter stall number, swipe card, the relevant stall then activates.
The requirement for Chademo – most likely could be negotiated away, but if they have to provide it, I can only imagine they'll install 1 or 2 third party units at the same site.
I also saw the interview on the Ludicrous Feed channel, where the reps from the NSW Government said that they would meet all the requirements, but it could be that they were put on the spot during that interview, and just assumed that was the case.
Didn't the NSW Gov rep also say some minor changes are allowed, up to the applicant - that they're quite flexible or something similar to that effect.
But I read the grant pdf this morning and couldn't find this statement. So I guess as you said there would be some kind of compromise during the negotiation.
Bjorn showed a European supplier who has a product based on this concept for kerb side chargers. Typically, the card payment terminal has its own internet connection, so they are quite expensive to have multiple of.
If you install those along an entire street, they can talk to each other using Wi-Fi, and so only one needs a data card.
Latest announcement in NSW - 5 weeks out from an election 
The number of electric vehicle (EV) chargers will soar to 30,000 across the state by 2026 under a re-elected NSW Liberal and Nationals Government. The NSW Liberals and Nationals will fast track the rollout of its public and private EV charging plans by:
www.nsw.gov.au
The number of electric vehicle (EV) chargers will soar to 30,000 across the state by 2026 under a re-elected NSW Liberal and Nationals Government. The NSW Liberals and Nationals will fast track the rollout of its public and private EV charging plans by:
- reforming strata laws to make it easier for people living in apartments to charge their EV
- installing EV chargers throughout NSW transport hubs including commuter carparks and train, bus and ferry stations
- streamlining planning laws to accelerate the construction of chargers in public places like on power poles and parking meters.
30,000 EV chargers across NSW by 2026
The number of electric vehicle (EV) chargers will soar to 30,000 across the state by 2026 under a re-elected NSW Liberal and Nationals Government.
www.nsw.gov.au
Commuter car parks should be relatively cost effective. As you typically leave the car there the whole workday, 2 to 4 kW charging would be appropriate for charging every other day as distance to the train station shouldn't use much energy. At 2 kW you could charge 18 kWh over 9 hours, approximately 120 km range (150 Wh/km), that's more than a whole week of driving to the train station. You could install 175 2kW chargers on the same grid connection as one 350 kW charger.
expected behaviour at commuter carparks- you can't go and unplug cause you jumped on the train and went to work
Payment would be easy, they already have pre booked spots.... and idle fees
Park&Ride Prebooked commuter parking
Park&Ride Prebooked commuter parkingWorkplace charging is meant to be camped.
The ideal model IMHO is having chargers at every parking space (or almost every - maybe a couple of exceptions in awkward places), not dedicated EV-only spaces. They'd have two charging modes - Plug n Play, and Plug n Pray. Or some may only have the latter, if site owners (councils, parking stations etc) don't want to stuff around with billing.
Plug n Play will just be standard charging, same as any destination charger. Standard cost to use.
Plug n Pray would be something you are literally expected to camp on. Charging only occurs during solar sponge hours in the middle of the day, plus any hours where the grid price goes negative. So you'd plug in at, say, 8am, and charging might kick off at 9am, 10am, 11am, whatever. It might cut in and out repeatedly throughout the day (as happens at the chargers near where I work, which cut out 3x on Monday when it just happened to get overcast), but it always resumed fairly soon thereafter. And some days might be so dreary that they add no power at all, or far less power than you'd have hoped. Plus there's a risk you didn't plug the cable in correctly. Hence the pray part. But in exchange, the cost to use Plug n Pray would be free or almost free, given we're talking about shaving power off the grid at times of negative pricing (or very low positive pricing) only, without placing demands on it, which is providing a service to the grid that the power companies should be eager to accommodate. Things might get awkward if you have several days in a row of overcast weather and your car's battery is getting a little low, but that should be pretty rare, and wind power is still a thing.
True, but we're talking about a world where a significant double-digit% of cars are EVs, by the time anything like this happens. Fast chargers are taxing on the power grid, which completely defeats the purpose of all this. And the folks who rely on plug-and-pray all showing up at a fast charger at once will be, umm, delayed. A lot.
A better option might be for the power companies to promise that plug-and-pray will work for at least 2 hours a day. Or, depending on your definition of day, at least 2 of the 6 hours between 9am-3pm. For most folks, 2 hours is plenty.
You can oversubscribe AC chargers as well, Tesla Wall Chargers and others have the ability to manage a circuit amongst a number of units. Ramping up and down the allowed load on each unit as cars come and go or finish charging.
This carpark in Oslo can give you an idea of what is feasible if the will is there.
Keep in mind that a station like Ashfield has 180 car spaces in an area with high on street or multi-dwelling-units, still you would only need about 30-40 EV chargers for a 100% BEV fleet not charged at home. Arguably you could install maybe 10 now and be done with it.
Then a station like hills showground has 600 car spaces in an area with mostly single-family homes with off street parking. You would only need to install half the number of stalls compared to Ashfield.
Then a station like hills showground has 600 car spaces in an area with mostly single-family homes with off street parking. You would only need to install half the number of stalls compared to Ashfield.
Chuq
Active Member
I've thought of a model like this in the past, and it makes perfect sense!
It would probably have to start charging immediately, at the slowest possible speed (~1.4 kW I think) because some vehicles have a timeout when negotiating the connection that may cause them to idle out after a few minutes... then the speed increases as solar soak requirements increase.
The site would be more of a grid service. The charging station features would be secondary. The site operator makes its revenue from grid services and energy price arbitrage, the car owners get paid in free electricity. (Free - because they need to be incentivised to bother plugging in if there's a chance they won't get anything). They could be an option to pay commercial rates for a guaranteed 7 kW or whatever.
Chuq
Active Member
No idea which thread to post this in - it doesn't appear to align with any off the dots on the ARENA Future Fuels map, or the NSW Evenergi map - and it's not a site of a known network (eg Ampol. BP, or a property group that has announced a partnership with a network) - so dropping here for now...
It's at Granville Diggers RSL.
Found on the NSW Planning Portal - no further information apart from what is in the screenshot.
It's at Granville Diggers RSL.
Found on the NSW Planning Portal - no further information apart from what is in the screenshot.
Last edited:
