Nonsense article on Elon Musk subsidies

[wayner]

Couple of advantages of SUV though,
- If you live in the boonies in snow country, SUV with its clearance and 4wd is a must.

There are a lot of people that live in the boonies here in Canada, where we get a lot of snow, that manage to survive just fine with small passenger cars.

 

[Max*]

Yup, I don't know why people are crazy about SUVs. But then again, I've never owned an SUV.

Kids, large families and crap.

Between kids clothes, diapers when they were younger, toys, etc. etc. etc. a mid-sized sedan can feel cramped.

We have a 7-seater SUV. There are usually 4 of us, but when family comes over (or we visit, which is more frequent), it's very convenient to fit everyone in 1 car.

 

[kuttakamina]

There are a lot of people that live in the boonies here in Canada, where we get a lot of snow, that manage to survive just fine with small passenger cars.

Maybe your govt. actually ploughs the roads? Here in McLean/Great falls, VA, all the nicer homes have the last 2-4 miles of a tiny one lane privately maintained road that doesn't get ploughed.
Usually the maint. of the road is shared between 2, 3 private owners (residences), and everyone owns SUVs .. for that very reason. I am hoping the AWD in the D models will do okay. I had a chance to test drive the D and P85 in Norway in snow, and the D was MUCH better in snow. Like .. a LOT better. I drove it up a 30 degree uphill with 6 inches of snow, .. no issues with D. No way I'd do that in a RWD.

 

[Max*]

Regardless, Tesla deserves much more credit considering where they have come from and how quickly they got there. Personally, I feel Elon Musk deserves more credit for his leadership and inspiration in getting Tesla to where they are.

While I know someone will give me hell for this, but how much have you read about Musk? You do know that Tesla wasn't his idea, and he kicked out one of the founders after he invested in it? He's great at PR, but tends to over promise and... maybe not under-deliver, but definitely deliver very very late.

 

[scaesare]

SUV drivers are a55h0l3s. Thats all there is to it.

Nothing like making a sweeping, insulting, generalization to reinforce the objectivity of your assertions.

So I have a Model S, as well as an SUV. What does that make me?

 

[Max*]

Maybe your govt. actually ploughs the roads? Here in McLean/Great falls, VA, all the nicer homes have the last 2-4 miles of a tiny one lane privately maintained road that doesn't get ploughed.
Usually the maint. of the road is shared between 2, 3 private owners (residences), and everyone owns SUVs .. for that very reason. I am hoping the AWD in the D models will do okay. I had a chance to test drive the D and P85 in Norway in snow, and the D was MUCH better in snow. Like .. a LOT better. I drove it up a 30 degree uphill with 6 inches of snow, .. no issues with D. No way I'd do that in a RWD.

Nicer? Lol, those aren't "nicer" homes, those are 9-bedroom 9-bathroom mansions (and not the mcmansions you see popping up in Loudon county) on acres of land, costing tens of millions of dollars.

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No way I'd do that in a RWD.

Not in a RWD sedan. Possibly in a RWD Tesla. One of the reasons the RWD sedans handle poorly in snow, is that he engine is up front and they have no weight on the rear tires. With a Tesla the weight is more evenly distributed, so the RWD handles very well in snow (look at the New england Tesla forum, lots of people drove their RWD cars in snow, and had no problems)

 

[mknox]

SUV drivers are a55h0l3s. Thats all there is to it.

Well, so much for me ever getting a Model X SUV then :wink:

Still, people who commute (1 person) in cadillac escalades - what is wrong with your head?

Cadillac used to make a Hybrid version that got better City mileage than a lot of compact cars. I suppose some of those compact car drivers are nuts in the head too???

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Meanwhile, government motors cost us $11.2b and still continues to build inefficient unreliable cars.
And their "business plan" is to sell Volt and Bolt at a loss to drive Tesla out of business.

Please actually do some research on GM's efforts before coming here and spouting complete nonsense.

 

[LucM]

Got a link to back that up? All I can find is, GM cost taxpayers money, and they are selling Volt at a loss and plan to do exactly the same with Bolt.
Tesla, could also sell Model S at 30K for a loss on each car, and they would probably save more gas than Volt.

For my money, I'd rather see Tesla be supported than GM. But maybe I'm misguided?

So far, we taxpayers have lost money on GM.

 

[mknox]

Not in a RWD sedan. Possibly in a RWD Tesla. One of the reasons the RWD sedans handle poorly in snow, is that he engine is up front and they have no weight on the rear tires. With a Tesla the weight is more evenly distributed, so the RWD handles very well in snow (look at the New england Tesla forum, lots of people drove their RWD cars in snow, and had no problems)

I'll second that. With proper winter tires (Nokian Hakka R2s in my case) my RWD Model S was every bit as good in the rough past two winters as AWD would have been. The only exception is that you can't blast away from a stop on slippery roads as well as you could with AWD, but in my opinion, that's how you end up in trouble anyway. AWD doesn't stop you any faster, and a lot of AWD owners forego winter tires making the stopping problem even worse.

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So far, we taxpayers have lost money on GM.

We taxpayers have lost a lot of money on a lot of stuff. Foreign wars anyone? At least it was to support a domestic company and domestic jobs, which I'm sure has mitigated a lot of other costs that we taxpayers would have ended up losing even more money on.

 

[dsm363]

Am I misunderstanding this, or this article is just absurd?

Elon Musks growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

Lets talk about Elon Musk's "empire"

- Tesla has gotten loans, under conditions, repaid back early with interest. Plus they have produced awesome technology, saved loads of pollution, and gas.
- Solar city has saved loads of CO2 emission, or nuclear waste.
- SpaceX has presented the only viable route to space, cheaper than even China - for the country that put man on the moon, we today rely on Russia for access to space. That is shameful.

Meanwhile, government motors cost us $11.2b and still continues to build inefficient unreliable cars.
And their "business plan" is to sell Volt and Bolt at a loss to drive Tesla out of business.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/30/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430
and
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/10/us-generalmotors-autos-volt-idUSBRE88904J20120910

Am I misunderstanding this? If not, why do we tolerate such nonsense in leading newspapers?

There is a thread about this started a few days ago so will merge.
Nonsense article on Elon Musk subsidies

 

[kuttakamina]

Nothing like making a sweeping, insulting, generalization to reinforce the objectivity of your assertions.

So I have a Model S, as well as an SUV. What does that make me?

Depends on what you're driving

 

[DarrenHD]

- Some people say driving sitting higher on the road is an advantage - that is the most BS reason ever. I just HATE it when I want to make a right, and the SUV to my left, blocking my view from incoming traffic, wants to make a left. SUV drivers are a55h0l3s. Thats all there is to it.

Live in Canada too, we have a AWD Nissan Rogue. My wife drives it with the kiddies in the back and she likes being up higher, she says she has better visibility. I think for the Model X you may see more females interested in it. Some have said that Model S was more built for men. I heard a women complain about reaching the pedals on the Model S. Not sure if the X will address that or not.

 

[qwk]

We taxpayers have lost a lot of money on a lot of stuff. Foreign wars anyone? At least it was to support a domestic company and domestic jobs, which I'm sure has mitigated a lot of other costs that we taxpayers would have ended up losing even more money on.

Most of the parts used on GM models are made in good ol China.

 

[mknox]

Most of the parts used on GM models are made in good ol China.

To be fair, so many of the parts on my Model S were made outside of North America that it didn't qualify under NAFTA and I had to pay Canadian import duty. Didn't have to do that with my Michigan built Cadillac. Just sayin'

 

[scaesare]

Depends on what you're driving

Just remember: when folks decide to paint all EV owners as "tree hugging hippie liberal dipsh!ts", they've simply sunk to the same tactics you opted to use.

I encourage folks here to take the high road. Insulting folks who might not yet have taken the plunge the reduce their reliance on petroleum isn't the way to encourage constructive dialog and subsequent change.

 

[qwk]

To be fair, so many of the parts on my Model S were made outside of North America that it didn't qualify under NAFTA and I had to pay Canadian import duty. Didn't have to do that with my Michigan built Cadillac. Just sayin'

That's because the main part of the car(the battery cells), are made in Japan. I bet that the Chinese parts content of the Model S is pretty low. You must be talking about a pretty old Cadillac if the parts content was mostly US/Canadian parts.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That's because the main part of the car(the battery cells), are made in Japan. I bet that the Chinese parts content of the Model S is pretty low. You must be talking about a pretty old Cadillac if the parts content was mostly US/Canadian parts.

It'll be interesting to see when the gigafactory cells start being installed. I wonder if Tesla will instantly flip to being one of the highest US/Canadian parts content.

 

[brucet999]

- Some people say driving sitting higher on the road is an advantage - that is the most BS reason ever. I just HATE it when I want to make a right, and the SUV to my left, blocking my view from incoming traffic, wants to make a left. SUV drivers are a55h0l3s. Thats all there is to it.

It appears to me that this statement contradicts itself. Sitting higher is clearly an advantage to that SUV driver who can see over you while his vehicle blocks your view.

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I'll second that. With proper winter tires (Nokian Hakka R2s in my case) my RWD Model S was every bit as good in the rough past two winters as AWD would have been. The only exception is that you can't blast away from a stop on slippery roads as well as you could with AWD, but in my opinion, that's how you end up in trouble anyway. AWD doesn't stop you any faster, and a lot of AWD owners forego winter tires making the stopping problem even worse.

I found my Volvo 850 FWD to be more sure in snow than RWD cars I had driven. Granted, RWD MS with nearly equal front/rear weight distribution should out-perform front-engine ICE RWD, but isn't there an inherent advantage in stability and traction with AWD?.

 

[kuttakamina]

It appears to me that this statement contradicts itself. Sitting higher is clearly an advantage to that SUV driver who can see over you while his vehicle blocks your view.

The point I was trying to make was, SUV drivers sit higher, thereby improving their view, at the cost of blocking others.
Its a bit like .. hey you got a loudspeaker, and I don't like listening to your fav (Britney spears) all day. So I'll get a bigger loud speaker and play Enya to drown your britney out.
That is why I don't like SUVs, either sitting in them (out of consideration for others), or being around them.

Plus SUVs look crappy.

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Just remember: when folks decide to paint all EV owners as "tree hugging hippie liberal dipsh!ts", they've simply sunk to the same tactics you opted to use.

I see your point. But my not liking SUVs has nothing to do with EV or not EV.
Model X is an SUV, and I don't find that attractive either.

Model X looks like the ugly fat sister of the hot Model S.

But maybe thats what people are into these days .. :-/