New Zealand

[PeterW]

How about ranger service? It might be a viable option if you all got together and wrote a combined letter to Jerome Guillen. If you all chipped in together to pay for a visit by a ranger, say on a regular basis to be negotiated, and saved up your issues, having notified them in advance so parts/ tools would be available to the ranger, that might well be a viable option, for both you and the company.

Elon has said that they do not want to enter new markets until they can support the new market with service centres and superchargers. They want the customer to have a good experience when they get the car. Tesla were looking at doing the service ranger thing from Aus but they changed there minds. The following is part of an email I received from Jerome earlier this year:
“I recognize that the situation is difficult for NZ customers, as it is not in our immediate plans to be present there. While it is Tesla’s intentions to be present eventually in nearly all countries, it might take some time to get there: we simply don’t have the resources to tackle all challenges at once.”

I think the best we can hope for is the likes of Steve and Carl going it alone, getting govt policies changed and generating demand( It would have to be a lot of demand) and that might
encourage Tesla to become active in NZ a bit quicker. Otherwise a would say 2016 before we see Tesla officially delivering in NZ.

 

[sublimaze1]

A Texan Chimes in ...

Elon has said that they do not want to enter new markets until they can support the new market with service centres and superchargers. They want the customer to have a good experience when they get the car.

In support of this, I took possession of my Model S in December of 2012. Needless to say, there were no superchargers in Texas at all. I did make several long distance treks (Houston, Austin) but they were exciting for me, but not so exciting for the three females that accompanied me on those journeys. Hypermiling, climate control adjustments, etc. ... some people just don't seem thrilled by the challenge.

“I recognize that the situation is difficult for NZ customers, as it is not in our immediate plans to be present there. While it is Tesla’s intentions to be present eventually in nearly all countries, it might take some time to get there: we simply don’t have the resources to tackle all challenges at once.”

Completely understand this (although this does not take the sting out of NZ being treated low on the priority list). I feel justified in speaking up, as this was Texas just two years ago. Sure, we are in the USA but if you look at the map of SC right now, we are an island. Can't go anywhere but the triangle (DFW-HOU-SAT). I was told that resources were an issue and I was (and still am) baffled to see a conduit through South Dakota, and I-10 (the southern route) being lower on the priority list.

I think the best we can hope for is the likes of Steve and Carl going it alone, getting govt policies changed and generating demand( It would have to be a lot of demand) and that might
encourage Tesla to become active in NZ a bit quicker.

(As an aside) I will be in Auckland - and other parts north - in January for my mid-life-crisis-getaway. Would love to see the grass roots movement when I come (and perhaps fully tagged and titled Teslas in NZ).

WJ

 

[teddyg]

Elon has said that they do not want to enter new markets until they can support the new market with service centres and superchargers. They want the customer to have a good experience when they get the car. Tesla were looking at doing the service ranger thing from Aus but they changed there minds.

Totally understand that approach but Tesla should allow for people (especially those who have had reservations and paid deposits over 2 years ago!) to sign a waiver allowing for delivery in places where there is no service centre yet present. As I said it is most likely that the first service centre and store is going to be up in Auckland... so how will that help me being way down at the bottom of the South Island? For me I might as well be going through the Sydney service centre/store anyway!

I like the earlier suggestion that we might all be able to chip in for a ranger to come over from Aus every 6 or 12 months until an Auckland base is constructed.

Tesla took our deposits stating that importing from Aus was going to be fine. Now it seems like those in New Zealand will end up being those who have to wait the longest in the world for their Model S (from deposit to delivery)...not cool. They also haven't even bothered to notify us officially about this policy either. I have to constantly email Tesla Aus to get some feedback (usually from a totally new employee). I understand Tesla is just getting on its feet but I mean come on...how much do the Aussie/NZ Tesla team really have to do at this point? They could at least keep in regular contact with the Aus/NZ reservation holders (have they never heard of group email??).

I really don't care about superchargers either. They will be nice when constructed but not essential in my opinion. I have been driving an EV with only a 40 mile range for over 10 years and I still do about 95% of my driving in it! I just borrow a friend's car when I need to go further and he takes my EV for the day (it is not hard to find those who want to swap!).
So I am willing to wait as long as it takes for an eventual supercharger and service centre network in NZ but I don't want to have to wait that long for my car!

Again I am not saying Tesla should do this for everyone. Just those who took a chance on the company 18-24+ months ago and paid deposits. New reservation holders should be told they have to wait (and if Tesla were honest they shouldn't take deposits from anyone in NZ until they have a firm date for a NZ store/service centre). It would however be a nice reward for those who believed in Tesla so long ago to be able to get their cars in the meantime.

Just a thought and still a massive fan of Tesla and their mission obviously.

 

[Isbrown]

Elon has said that they do not want to enter new markets until they can support the new market with service centres and superchargers. They want the customer to have a good experience when they get the car. Tesla were looking at doing the service ranger thing from Aus but they changed there minds.

Totally understand that approach but Tesla should allow for people (especially those who have had reservations and paid deposits over 2 years ago!) to sign a waiver allowing for delivery in places where there is no service centre yet present. As I said it is most likely that the first service centre and store is going to be up in Auckland... so how will that help me being way down at the bottom of the South Island? For me I might as well be going through the Sydney service centre/store anyway!

I like the earlier suggestion that we might all be able to chip in for a ranger to come over from Aus every 6 or 12 months until an Auckland base is constructed.

Tesla took our deposits stating that importing from Aus was going to be fine. Now it seems like those in New Zealand will end up being those who have to wait the longest in the world for their Model S (from deposit to delivery)...not cool. They also haven't even bothered to notify us officially about this policy either. I have to constantly email Tesla Aus to get some feedback (usually from a totally new employee). I understand Tesla is just getting on its feet but I mean come on...how much do the Aussie/NZ Tesla team really have to do at this point? They could at least keep in regular contact with the Aus/NZ reservation holders (have they never heard of group email??).

.
I really don't care about superchargers either. They will be nice when constructed but not essential in my opinion. I have been driving an EV with only a 40 mile range for over 10 years and I still do about 95% of my driving in it! I just borrow a friend's car when I need to go further and he takes my EV for the day (it is not hard to find those who want to swap!).
So I am willing to wait as long as it takes for an eventual supercharger and service centre network in NZ but I don't want to have to wait that long for my car!

Again I am not saying Tesla should do this for everyone. Just those who took a chance on the company 18-24+ months ago and paid deposits. New reservation holders should be told they have to wait (and if Tesla were honest they shouldn't take deposits from anyone in NZ until they have a firm date for a NZ store/service centre). It would however be a nice reward for those who believed in Tesla so long ago to be able to get their cars in the meantime.

Just a thought and still a massive fan of Tesla and their mission obviously.

I agree the Aus/NZ team could easily update everyone, but that assumes they know something. Tesla employees operate in a cell formation like spy agency, everything is on a need to know basis. It must be incredibly frustrating for them. They have to beg for information like Oliver Twist, 'please sir, can I have some more?'. It seems crazy, but they just seem to be here in Aus to do test drives. They all seem very nice people who want to do what they can to help you, but they either don't know anything or are not allowed to tell you anything. So where do you go for information? Ah, welcome to the Tesla information black hole.

 

[Johnwill]

How about ranger service? It might be a viable option if you all got together and wrote a combined letter to Jerome Guillen. If you all chipped in together to pay for a visit by a ranger, say on a regular basis to be negotiated, and saved up your issues, having notified them in advance so parts/ tools would be available to the ranger, that might well be a viable option, for both you and the company.

That's a half decent idea but I would go one step further to say a local contractor with the correct training would be a better solution.

Service is one thing and can be organised into a set timeframe but breakdowns also need to be covered without the cost of a technician flying here in each instance.
Also a contractor would be better cost wise than supporting a Tesla staff member in NZ, based on the number of cars in the short term.

It's not hard to do. I myself have supported many overseas technical products and know you can achieve a lot with email plus phone support. I've even had overseas parts arrive the next day, by Fed-Ex, from the US.
Also New Zealand has plenty of support industries that a nominated service company could call upon so there is no need to have every skill set in-house.

 

[Mark E]

That's a half decent idea but I would go one step further to say a local contractor with the correct training would be a better solution.

Service is one thing and can be organised into a set timeframe but breakdowns also need to be covered without the cost of a technician flying here in each instance.
Also a contractor would be better cost wise than supporting a Tesla staff member in NZ, based on the number of cars in the short term.

It's not hard to do. I myself have supported many overseas technical products and know you can achieve a lot with email plus phone support. I've even had overseas parts arrive the next day, by Fed-Ex, from the US.
Also New Zealand has plenty of support industries that a nominated service company could call upon so there is no need to have every skill set in-house.

Indeed, that's how I ran an IT support organisation Australia wide. We trained agents in many of the regional towns where the equipment was. Generally the agent was on call for several vendors products and was known locally.

 

[Johnwill]

An interesting thing that I have noticed is that for servicing Tesla seems to lean towards those with ICE training.

For example.. Senior Automotive Vehicle Technician Job in Sydney - SEEK

It asks for:
Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities:

• High School Certificate (HSC) required.
• Certificate III in Automotive Technology (Light Vehicle) or higher preferred.
• Motor Mechanic Tradesperson’s Certificate from Motor Vehicle Repair Industry Authority (MVRIA) is required.
• 3-5 yrs experience in a dealership environment, 5+ years in the automotive industry.
• Factory Trained Master Status / OEM Training & hybrid experience, preferred.
• Certification to repair A/C systems and handle refrigerant.
• Maintain and perform top level professional integrity and appearance as an automotive technician.
• Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities:
• Methods, techniques, parts, tools and materials used in the maintenance and repair of vehicles including testing, diagnosis, HVAC service, hydraulic, brakes, testing and repair of electronic systems and modules.
• Operation and maintenance of a wide variety of hand and power tools, shop tools, test equipment.
• Automotive equipment and servicing methods.
• Extensive experience using scan tools, following diagnostics and operating scopes/DVOM equipment.
• Chemicals and lubricants used in automotive servicing.
• Excellent oral and written communication skills as well as the ability to follow instructions, required.
• Ability to establish and maintain cooperative working relationships with those contacted in the course of work, including the public.

The thing is that the car is mostly computer and electrical components. What is more is that in NZ you cannot work for reward on any equipment of above 50VAC that is to be livened by connecting it to our electrical supply. If you do and it is not tested and certified by a person with a current Electrical Practising License then you are liable for prosecution. I'm not sure how they are going to cover that one if a mechanic replaces components on the charging circuit that can be connected to 1ph 230V or 3ph 400V.

Same might even apply in Australia.

 

[miimura]

...in NZ you cannot work for reward on any equipment of above 50VAC that is to be livened by connecting it to our electrical supply. If you do and it is not tested and certified by a person with a current Electrical Practising License then you are liable for prosecution. I'm not sure how they are going to cover that one if a mechanic replaces components on the charging circuit that can be connected to 1ph 230V or 3ph 400V.

I believe you are referring to an automotive technician working on the on-board charger which at some point will be connected to the mains through Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. I think there is a strong case to be made that equipment built into an electric vehicle should not be subject to the trade regulations targeted at grid circuits.

 

[teddyg]

I agree the Aus/NZ team could easily update everyone, but that assumes they know something. Tesla employees operate in a cell formation like spy agency, everything is on a need to know basis. It must be incredibly frustrating for them. They have to beg for information like Oliver Twist, 'please sir, can I have some more?'. It seems crazy, but they just seem to be here in Aus to do test drives. They all seem very nice people who want to do what they can to help you, but they either don't know anything or are not allowed to tell you anything. So where do you go for information? Ah, welcome to the Tesla information black hole.

Well after I sent a few emails the guy at Tesla Australia DID know that they would not be sending any cars to NZ until there is an on-ground presence in NZ. He then wrote that they have no idea when an on-ground presence will be made in NZ.
Great.
Couldn't they have sent out a group email to all NZ reservation holders letting us know that little pearl of information???
For the past two years since I made my reservation in July 2012 I have been told (only after asking numerous times) that NZ deliveries would be in 2nd Half 2013 then late 2013 then June 2014 then late 2014 to now being told..."sorry actually we have no idea".
Awesome.
Aren't any of you a little bit peeved off?
I think we should make a bit of a fuss and get our cars regardless of on ground NZ presence. At least for those of us in NZ who made reservations in 2012/13 maybe???

Ahh well...more waiting I guess.

 

[JOH]

Well after I sent a few emails the guy at Tesla Australia DID know that they would not be sending any cars to NZ until there is an on-ground presence in NZ. He then wrote that they have no idea when an on-ground presence will be made in NZ.
Great.
Couldn't they have sent out a group email to all NZ reservation holders letting us know that little pearl of information???
For the past two years since I made my reservation in July 2012 I have been told (only after asking numerous times) that NZ deliveries would be in 2nd Half 2013 then late 2013 then June 2014 then late 2014 to now being told..."sorry actually we have no idea".
Awesome.
Aren't any of you a little bit peeved off?
I think we should make a bit of a fuss and get our cars regardless of on ground NZ presence. At least for those of us in NZ who made reservations in 2012/13 maybe???

Ahh well...more waiting I guess.

As as far as I know, the same applies to Australia outside of NSW & VIC as well.....although I'd guess that Tesla will plan to have more Australia States covered before launching in NZ.

 

[Gabz]

As as far as I know, the same applies to Australia outside of NSW & VIC as well.....although I'd guess that Tesla will plan to have more Australia States covered before launching in NZ.

you really think they'll tell simon hacket he can't have a model S because he lives in SA ? he'll just buy a small flat in VIC/ SA border.. rent house in NSW buy car ship to house receive car and transport end lease.

 

[Johnwill]

I believe you are referring to an automotive technician working on the on-board charger which at some point will be connected to the mains through Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. I think there is a strong case to be made that equipment built into an electric vehicle should not be subject to the trade regulations targeted at grid circuits.

On the contrary. You only need one person to be injured due to non regulated work and it opens a whole can of worms for everyone. Far better to have the right people and someone with 5 years experience in an ICE dominated industry is not it. Let's face it, in most dealerships if the ECU plays up a an automotive electrician is called. What's left that a "Motor Mechanic Tradesperson" understands once the ICE is not there, apart from brake pads? Window glass, panel beating/coachwork, upholstery, spray painting and even the resurfacing of disk brakes are all separate services provided by other trades. Tesla would be better looking for those with electrical or mechatronics backgrounds to service what is still a reasonably new technology.

 

[Mark E]

On the contrary. You only need one person to be injured due to non regulated work and it opens a whole can of worms for everyone. Far better to have the right people and someone with 5 years experience in an ICE dominated industry is not it. Let's face it, in most dealerships if the ECU plays up a an automotive electrician is called. What's left that a "Motor Mechanic Tradesperson" understands once the ICE is not there, apart from brake pads? Window glass, panel beating/coachwork, upholstery, spray painting and even the resurfacing of disk brakes are all separate services provided by other trades. Tesla would be better looking for those with electrical or mechatronics backgrounds to service what is still a reasonably new technology.

There are actually quite a lot of common components with an ICE vehicle, and much of what isn't common can be taught. Bear in mind that anyone certified to work on hybrids has to work around high voltage electric propulsion. You'd be surprised at the amount of non drivetrain work mechanics actually do. Suspension, window regulators, wiper and washer motors, air conditioning, wheel bearings, brakes and steering just to name a few jobs off the top of my head. You shouldn't under estimate the skills and overall knowledge that a good qualified mechanic actually has. Also don't forget that they may also be repairing the reduction gear or motor for some warranty work. Unless you know what you are doing stripping and rebuilding even a simple differential is a specialised job.

I've been around cars, motorcycles and their workshops for years as my hobby - I'm a rev head from way back and have rebuilt complete cars myself. I still admire the professionals skills.

The model S has a lot of computer control, but is still fundamentally a car with many of the same issues. Admittedly the servicing should be much simpler, but actual warranty work is likely to be mechanical.

 

[SteveWest]

Well after I sent a few emails the guy at Tesla Australia DID know that they would not be sending any cars to NZ until there is an on-ground presence in NZ. He then wrote that they have no idea when an on-ground presence will be made in NZ.
Great.
[…]
Aren't any of you a little bit peeved off?
I think we should make a bit of a fuss and get our cars regardless of on ground NZ presence.

I feel a lot better now that I have taken matters into my own hands. My Model S arrives in Auckland mid-October.

 

[Alfred]

In Switzerland there is no legal requirement for additional electrician-like training to be allowed to work on electric cars.
If there is a failure of high voltage components, the whole part (entire battery or PEM) is sent abroad. Only routine electrical repairs on the 12V system are done locally (wipers, lights, 12V battery etc.).

Traditional automotive know-how remains essential. Just remember that e.g. a failure of air conditioning would immobilise a Roadster as the battery would loose its cooling too. Currently Tesla recruit here preferentially so-called "Automotive Mechatronicians" that had some training with modern automotive electronics. They will need additional Tesla specific training, but that does not involve repairs to the internals of the high voltage power systems. They are just sent to an external 2-day course on higher voltage electrics.

 

[teddyg]

I feel a lot better now that I have taken matters into my own hands. My Model S arrives in Auckland mid-October.

That's great Steve....care to inform us of your methods in getting it here?

 

[Johnwill]

There are actually quite a lot of common components with an ICE vehicle, and much of what isn't common can be taught. Bear in mind that anyone certified to work on hybrids has to work around high voltage electric propulsion. You'd be surprised at the amount of non drivetrain work mechanics actually do. Suspension, window regulators, wiper and washer motors, air conditioning, wheel bearings, brakes and steering just to name a few jobs off the top of my head. You shouldn't under estimate the skills and overall knowledge that a good qualified mechanic actually has. Also don't forget that they may also be repairing the reduction gear or motor for some warranty work. Unless you know what you are doing stripping and rebuilding even a simple differential is a specialised job.

I've been around cars, motorcycles and their workshops for years as my hobby - I'm a rev head from way back and have rebuilt complete cars myself. I still admire the professionals skills.

The model S has a lot of computer control, but is still fundamentally a car with many of the same issues. Admittedly the servicing should be much simpler, but actual warranty work is likely to be mechanical.

In Switzerland there is no legal requirement for additional electrician-like training to be allowed to work on electric cars.
If there is a failure of high voltage components, the whole part (entire battery or PEM) is sent abroad. Only routine electrical repairs on the 12V system are done locally (wipers, lights, 12V battery etc.).

Traditional automotive know-how remains essential. Just remember that e.g. a failure of air conditioning would immobilise a Roadster as the battery would loose its cooling too. Currently Tesla recruit here preferentially so-called "Automotive Mechatronicians" that had some training with modern automotive electronics. They will need additional Tesla specific training, but that does not involve repairs to the internals of the high voltage power systems. They are just sent to an external 2-day course on higher voltage electrics.

Likewise a good industrial electrical fitter or mechatronics technician probably has most of the skills to tackle all those mechanical tasks, or could quickly adapt to them. I've no disrespect for the skills of ICE mechanics. However I have done plenty of service and repair tasks on ICEs (including rebuilds) myself yet would not like to see some of my mechanic mates work on some of the 400V systems that I do. In fact I know they would not want to "touch them with a barge pole", as they have told me so.

My point is more how do they eventually deal with NZ servicing without flouting the law as it stands, or do they have to? Has the law currently been overlooked? What happens when some regulator picks up on it? IMO service personnel in the EV industry will probably need additional certification. Personally I would be thinking outside the box rather than looking for the traditional staff associated with motor vehicles.

 

[Gabz]

My point is more how do they eventually deal with NZ servicing without flouting the law as it stands, or do they have to? Has the law currently been overlooked? What happens when some regulator picks up on it? IMO service personnel in the EV industry will probably need additional certification. Personally I would be thinking outside the box rather than looking for the traditional staff associated with motor vehicles.

Ring up your Nissan dealership and ask them or the Mitsubishi or Toyota. Tesla aren’t the first electric car in NZ or Australia. one would assume they've solved the problem already. the Nissan LEAF are 240VAC type 1 or 120amps 400VDC CHademo all stuff which exceeds the ELV of a car normally.

maybe it hasn't come up i'm yet to hear of a charger failing and need replacements on the LEAF it's only be the heaters than have broken on mass and a standard service doesn't go near the HV stuff.

 

[SteveWest]

That's great Steve....care to inform us of your methods in getting it here?

As I wrote on p2 of this thread

The two options are sourcing from Australia, or from Tilburg. I am doing the latter because I require the jump seats (which are illegal in Australia). Pickup is scheduled for September 8th, in three weeks. From Tilburg I will drive the car to the UK, and ship it from there. I am using the R-Rak system with autoshippers.co.uk, which is substantially cheaper and more secure than any other option I could find.

A little bit of background here:
Tesla in Australia? - Page 137

 

[Dborn]

From Jerome Guillen this morning. ( in part see rest of message different post).

For customers in New Zealand, we appreciate their interest and commitment to Tesla, but we are not going to be present there in the short to medium term. They will have to bear the consequences of their choices: in particular, if they buy a European car, the warranty will only be valid in Europe, requiring them to ship the car back to Europe for warranty work.