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New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

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The problem is the existence, and individual definitions of, "corner cases". It's impossible to design a car to fit every one of everyone's needs. So, the designers have to make tradeoffs based on what they've been given as the "use cases". And in cutting the target scope of cases out, corners ones get cut.

It would seem that ones like the need to tote "long cargo" like skis and lumber were among those cut, in order to preserve ones like "maximize total cargo space" and "make ingress/egress to rear seats easy".

I will say for me and my needs, that line of thinking worked. Unfortunately, for some others, it doesn't.

Further complicating matters is that Tesla, in order to maximize the interested consumers, let people assume their priorities could be met. But when the reality of sitting at the drawing board and prototypes came, they had to make the compromises, and didn't (and really still haven't) communicated the tradeoffs they had to make.

They have roughly 30k reservations, essentially sight unseen. Assuming the 30k are representative of the potential buyers of the MX, their goal is to make a design that appeals to the max among those. Have they done that? we'll see. But its impossible to keep everyone happy because physics and emotion.

E.g. Even if they relented and abandoned the wing doors, they would have lost some. Because the only way to ease access to the rear seats then is minivan-ish. And i guarantee you they would lose far more sales if they made sliding doors. They also probably factored in that some of those lost corner cases could be solved in other ways, i.e. a trailer.
 
That is true. Just rent a pickup to do the occasional dirty job if you don't have one. Or spend a couple hundred dollars to pay someone to do it. The idea of using a $120K car to do those things does sound a little questionable. The more I think about it the more I feel a comfortable sculptural piece of art seat that can move for easy 3rd row seat access trumps a seat that can fold flat to do jobs that I probabaly would never want to do with the car.

Yeah, totally going to go find a pickup to rent to do something that the vehicle I already own and is 100% capable of doing can do. Should I also go rent a beater to take my dogs to the park, vet or just a ride? Scored an amazing deal on a display model 70" TV at Target a while back. Folks were lining up to get it. Should I have told them: hang onto it, gotta go find a pickup! Or, when I was visiting someone in Delaware and found a great deal on a new Washer at Sears and popped that sucker in the back (granted the hatch wasn't FULLY closed) -- should I have left my Model S, rented a pickup to bring it all the way back to PA, and then driven it back to get my car?

I feel the same way when folks say you can just rent a car on the days you have an exceptionally long drive if an EV's range doesn't suit them. I don't think folks truly grasp how impractical that actually is (to the point of making it easier to just not do it all together).
 
Configured last week and having not the slightest second thoughts. I happened to ride in the back of an S yesterday. I'm 6'1 and both front seats were back pretty far. UNCOMFORTABLE! My knees were crushed, feet didn't fit under the front seats and my head kept banging against the roof every time the driver played with Ludicrous.

My number one concern in paying this amount of money for an SUV vs a Sedan is that the back (middle) seats are comfortable for our friends. With the increased height and the ability to move middle seats back, the X will be closer to a limousine. That plus the ease of using a car seat for our grand daughter and the higher driving position, and the large frunk, and what appears to be at least as much interior storage space as our previous BMW X5, makes the choice of an X over an S a no brainer.

BTW, spoke with my DES. He got to experience a fully complete X at the factory last week. All he would say is that we were in for some pretty big surprises. I asked about the 20th, and there not being a formal "party." Would we at least learn everything on that date? He said emphatically, yes.

All of which goes to say - I find myself skipping over the doom and gloom posts. I'm feeling pretty darn excited.
 
This may be impractical but I want to get down to just two vehicles and both all electric. When I was thinking how I could do that because I have a truck and need to haul stuff and want to get rid of the truck. So I will look into a small dump trailer that I can tow with the X, I will not be as convenient or easy as the truck would be but again it is all a trade off and in the end what is most important to you.
 
Yeah, totally going to go find a pickup to rent to do something that the vehicle I already own and is 100% capable of doing can do. Should I also go rent a beater to take my dogs to the park, vet or just a ride? Scored an amazing deal on a display model 70" TV at Target a while back. Folks were lining up to get it. Should I have told them: hang onto it, gotta go find a pickup! Or, when I was visiting someone in Delaware and found a great deal on a new Washer at Sears and popped that sucker in the back (granted the hatch wasn't FULLY closed) -- should I have left my Model S, rented a pickup to bring it all the way back to PA, and then driven it back to get my car?

I feel the same way when folks say you can just rent a car on the days you have an exceptionally long drive if an EV's range doesn't suit them. I don't think folks truly grasp how impractical that actually is (to the point of making it easier to just not do it all together).

I'm not telling you to rent a pickup every day or every month. It's only when you absolutely can't figure out a way to use your X either with or without a 2nd seat that folds flat. And you missed my main point that you will still have pretty much the same volumn but only a foot or so shoter length with this design. Don't make it sound like you can do everything you want with a folded 2nd row seat and nothing with the current design. Current design can handle majority of things people would do including everything you mentioned if you are willing to keep the hatch open. I can't understand why some are so fixated on the traditional design that isn't so perfect anyway.
 
I've been a production Model X reservation holder (#11xx) since July 2012. Shortly after my first test drive in a Model S a month later, I upgraded to a Signature X (#147) and then waited. And waited. Delays announced. My venerable '96 4 Runner was dying and I couldn't wait any longer. In April 2013 I went back to a production Model X reservation and bought a Model S85 (Vin 98xx), anticipating to eventually "upgrade" to the Model X.

I can certainly relate to the growing frustration of many reservations holders on this thread. I have no kids and I always keep my rear seats folded down for my dog, 99% of the time. I've done the same thing with my Model S and my 4 Runner. The dog loves having a large flat area that he can roam around in and I enjoy having him come up and poke me with his nose when we wants the window rolled down. So this business of having the second row seats not fold is quite disappointing to me after all these years of waiting. Can anyone think of features promised in the Model S betas that didn't make it to production? When I'm cruising down the road with my big wide Tesla grin I want to turn my head and see my husky happily poking his head out the window, not stare at the middle second row seat which is moved forward, blocking the view of the back of my car.

I'm certainly not leaving the Tesla fold and don't anticipate dropping my Model X reservation (yet) but I'm really hoping that the "reveal" on 9/29 won't be sigh of "Dear God, Elon, what were you thinking?" Yes, I admit I'm being inflexible and spoiled, but hell--this is how I've used my cars for 20 years and it has worked very well for me.
 
Configured last week and having not the slightest second thoughts. I happened to ride in the back of an S yesterday. I'm 6'1 and both front seats were back pretty far. UNCOMFORTABLE! My knees were crushed, feet didn't fit under the front seats and my head kept banging against the roof every time the driver played with Ludicrous.

My number one concern in paying this amount of money for an SUV vs a Sedan is that the back (middle) seats are comfortable for our friends. With the increased height and the ability to move middle seats back, the X will be closer to a limousine. That plus the ease of using a car seat for our grand daughter and the higher driving position, and the large frunk, and what appears to be at least as much interior storage space as our previous BMW X5, makes the choice of an X over an S a no brainer.

BTW, spoke with my DES. He got to experience a fully complete X at the factory last week. All he would say is that we were in for some pretty big surprises. I asked about the 20th, and there not being a formal "party." Would we at least learn everything on that date? He said emphatically, yes.

All of which goes to say - I find myself skipping over the doom and gloom posts. I'm feeling pretty darn excited.

Did you mean 29th instead of 20th?

I totally agree with you. Who cares what those people who want to use the back space to let their dogs roam say? You and I and our family and friends who will sit in the 2nd and 3rd row seats can enjoy this totally awesome CUV of the future.
 
I'm not telling you to rent a pickup every day or every month. It's only when you absolutely can't figure out a way to use your X either with or without a 2nd seat that folds flat. And you missed my main point that you will still have pretty much the same volumn but only a foot or so shoter length with this design. Don't make it sound like you can do everything you want with a folded 2nd row seat and nothing with the current design. Current design can handle majority of things people would do including everything you mentioned if you are willing to keep the hatch open. I can't understand why some are so fixated on the traditional design that isn't so perfect anyway.

I was simply responding to your bafflement that people would use a $100k+ car to do anything other than carry people around.

The idea of using a $120K car to do those things does sound a little questionable.

If you'll recall, I'm in the camp that would prefer flat-folding seats, but don't feel they're a deal-breaker as long as I have at least as much utility as my Model S.
 
I totally agree with you. Who cares what those people who want to use the back space to let their dogs roam say? You and I and our family and friends who will sit in the 2nd and 3rd row seats can enjoy this totally awesome CUV of the future.

Wow, I hope you never land in the minority group of use-cases.

Here is why you should care about those dog-owning reservation holders:
The more people the Model-X appeals to, the more Model-X Tesla will sell
The more Model-X Tesla sells, the more financially stable Tesla becomes
The more financially stable Tesla becomes, means Tesla can put more money towards R&D
More money into R&D means better vehicles.
Better vehicles, means you'll be happier.
The BEV space is still quite small and we're all in this together. We either all succeed or we all fail. I don't think anyone in this forum wants to see Tesla fail.

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Wow, I hope you never land in the minority group of use-cases.

Here is why you should care about those dog-owning reservation holders:

The BEV space is still quite small and we're all in this together. We either all succeed or we all fail. I don't think anyone in this forum wants to see Tesla fail.

You think dog owners don't have a backyard to let dogs roam or have a park nearby?

It's of course more potential buyers the better but you have to ask what do you need to sacrafice for other potential buyers so a few dog owners could have happier dogs in the back. When dusts settles I can't imagine the disign is anything other than the best for most buyers most of times.
 
You think dog owners don't have a backyard to let dogs roam or have a park nearby?

It's of course more potential buyers the better but you have to ask what do you need to sacrifice for other potential buyers so a few dog owners could have happier dogs in the back. When dusts settles I can't imagine the design is anything other than the best for most buyers most of times.

I see that you're not a dog owner (full disclosure: neither am I). There are lots of reasons for transporting dogs, like taking them to the vet, driving them to a nearby park, going on vacation (with the pet), etc.

Folding seats benefit more than just dog owners, otherwise, they wouldn't be such a standard feature in almost every SUV on the market.

Maybe it's just best to agree to disagree.
 
I do not understand how they can ask you to order a vehicle without having all the necessary specifications. Makes no sense to me.


Tesla still isn't taking the ability to defer an order away. Defer, wait a couple months until you're comfortable, and you can still cancel or proceed as needed.

Every company has pre-orders. Every pre-order has its surprises. I pre-ordered a car from Mercedes and wasn't going to get what I wanted, so 9 months after I pre-ordered, I cancelled it.

You think dog owners don't have a backyard to let dogs roam or have a park nearby?


To each his/her own I guess for those owners. I just don't understand why it's so important for the dogs to have that additional 1.5 feet of room in a CUV format, but it's obviously not important enough to buy a full-seater van to add a good 4-7 feet of roaming room.

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You really don't need much room to keep dogs happy in a car! (I've let my parent's dog ride around in my smart car, she absolutely loved it).

Every person unhappy can definitely cancel if they need, but from what people are saying here these cases still seem like the fringiest of fringe cases. I don't think any of these people would be complaining if the storage compartment was 1.5 feet shorter than initially unveiled (say, if the car had ICE components shortening its usable length), but the seats folded flat.

And at the conversation regarding the Volt v. Model X space: you can fit folding bikes in a smart car. Small cars often use proportionately much larger internal volumes for cargo area. Leafs, Honda Fits, Volts--I've definitely seen them best some CUVs in storage area available.

People with smaller cars can adapt to smaller internal volumes, and I'm sure MX owners will be just fine with the 1.5' less of continuous storage space (ignoring the gigantic cargo storage in the frunk). The MX doesn't skimp on storage in the first place, I don't think 1.5' will be a big deal at all.

Yeah, totally going to go find a pickup to rent to do something that the vehicle I already own and is 100% capable of doing can do. Should I also go rent a beater to take my dogs to the park, vet or just a ride? Scored an amazing deal on a display model 70" TV at Target a while back. Folks were lining up to get it. Should I have told them: hang onto it, gotta go find a pickup!


And if you were going out to dinner with two friends, and found that deal on the way back? You still would have had to find an alternative solution. Conventional folding seats fold as a bench :)

I just am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that people who buy such large passenger vehicles, are often completely alone when using said vehicle. I thought that was the purpose of a pickup truck.