Motor Trend reports 2.6 0 to 60!! In P90D. Launch control??

[darthy001]

I think his point was the torque characteristic (as indicated by the 700+hp "motor power") matters more than 540hp battery limited power in this case. A Model S with "532 hp" motor power would not be able to run a 10.9 second 1/4 mile (largely due to worse low speed acceleration).

And isn't the torque characteristics indeed a major selling point of an EV-drivetrain? Which was my whole point. A big and heavy 5-7seat sedan capable of doing a 10.9s 1/4-mile run is simply insane in the first place. And doing that with "only" 532hp available is simply mindblowing. Not many days since I read more than 600hp was a minimum for such a task.

Isnt such a combo of stats unheard of in the ICE-world thus actually further establishing claims of EV-drivetrain superiority!?

You guys are so up in this battle now that you are looking for fights that arent there...

 

[brianman]

A big and heavy 5-7seat sedan capable of doing a 10.9s 1/4-mile run is simply insane in the first place.

I think you mean "ludicrous".

 

[ArtInCT]

The photos of the motor trend test car in the mt gallery show no pano roof. How much does the pano roof weigh? Back in the day we ordered muscle cars totally base... no radio, no heater. Bench front seat. I suspect from noticing the sig lines of P85D owners, that practice is rather ignored. "Everything but 3rd row seats" appears to be the norm...

 

[TitanP90D]

No.
You can not draw straight line comparisons on weight to 1/4 mile times. A 100 lb change in a 200 lb car makes a bigger difference than a 100 lb change in a 5000 lb car.
These are extremes but the point should be obvious.

You absolutely can. Power to weight ratio matters. Common physics of car racing Removing weight also improves handling and braking (to an extent). Increase power or decrease weight and performance improves. To your point greater the weight the less the improvement in ET but you shouldn't dismiss that it makes a difference. It absolutely does.

So in your extreme case. On a sport bike you may gain 1 second or more in the 1/4 dropping 100lbs. On a 5000lb car .1 or .2 you are doing good.

But the difference between Motor Trends 10.9 vs 11.4 actual owners are seeing. Your statement dismisses that the weight difference would close that .5 gap.
.2 on weight and .3 to .4 on 1ft rollout setting. You are easily there.

Here is a good episode for you to watch on physics applied to car performance if you have Hulu.
500lbs removed. No other changes resulted in over 1 second improvement in the 1/4.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/228074

 

[Jason S]

The photos of the motor trend test car in the mt gallery show no pano roof. How much does the pano roof weigh? Back in the day we ordered muscle cars totally base... no radio, no heater. Bench front seat. I suspect from noticing the sig lines of P85D owners, that practice is rather ignored. "Everything but 3rd row seats" appears to be the norm...

It is NOT a muscle car, it is a luxury sedan that happens to have lots of HP.

- - - Updated - - -

Titan, really don't try to take lolachampcar to school on this. Although it may be educational for the rest of us.

Interesting item about the preview on the above "weight vs speed" test. They seem to forget the aerodynamic of chopping the top half of the car off in their formula.

 

[darthy001]

I think you mean "ludicrous".

Hehe, on purpose actually I like the word insane better. The other one just reminds me of the rapper and sounds like something out of a cartoon as well

 

[shokunin]

But the difference between Motor Trends 10.9 vs 11.4 actual owners are seeing. Your statement dismisses that the weight difference would close that .5 gap.
.2 on weight and .3 to .4 on 1ft rollout setting. You are easily there.

The .3 to .4 seconds for the 1ft rollout is already accounted for in the 11.4s 1/4 mile time. Even 11.4 is not reliably hit with P90D's. 11.5 and 11.6 are more common than 11.4 from time slips that have been posted.

 

[TitanP90D]

The .3 to .4 seconds for the 1ft rollout is already accounted for in the 11.4s 1/4 mile time. Even 11.4 is not reliably hit with P90D's. 11.5 and 11.6 are more common than 11.4 from time slips that have been posted.

Ah good to know.
Weight is the obvious thing. What else do you think it could be.

 

[ArtInCT]

It is NOT a muscle car, it is a luxury sedan that happens to have lots of HP.

Wow... I did not know that.... thanks for clearing that up for me Janson S.:wink:

Again, what is the weight difference in a Model S with and without the Pano Roof, upgraded sound system, cold weather system, premium interior?

The design Studio has a MAX PERFORMANCE button which configures an Model S "LUXURY SEDAN" with pretty much none of the luxury items.
This is the configuration at Motor Trend tested... they just added the Multicoat Red Metallic Paint.

I posit that this is the configuration that should be able to achieve the best speed performance figures.
If your S has more options, then perhaps the performance characteristics of your car may just be less due to the added weight of the options.

 

[lolachampcar]

Titan,
Weight does have an effect. My comments were aimed at dismissing the idea that weight/configuration/tires was driving the difference between real world owners seeing 11.4 and MotorTrend seeing 10.9. Fiks and team with DragTimes are very good at understanding 1/4 mile times and evaluating cars for performance. My gut told me it was not weight but they were the ones that, for me, definitively put the issue to bed by saying the current P90DL was NOT a 10.9 second car in any of its current production configurations. I trust their judgement on these issues has they have been proven to be right many times in the past.

It is obvious to me that Tesla provided a car to MotorTrend with different firmware allowing more battery power to be consumed during the 1/4 mile run. Common sense would suggest they would only do this once they were ready to release that update to the P90DL fleet.

 

[Cattledog]

Again, what is the weight difference in a Model S with and without the Pano Roof, upgraded sound system, cold weather system, premium interior?

Looks like Pano adds about 120#.
First Tesla UNDER 3.0 seconds?

 

[TitanP90D]

Titan,
Weight does have an effect. My comments were aimed at dismissing the idea that weight/configuration/tires was driving the difference between real world owners seeing 11.4 and MotorTrend seeing 10.9. Fiks and team with DragTimes are very good at understanding 1/4 mile times and evaluating cars for performance. My gut told me it was not weight but they were the ones that, for me, definitively put the issue to bed by saying the current P90DL was NOT a 10.9 second car in any of its current production configurations. I trust their judgement on these issues has they have been proven to be right many times in the past.

It is obvious to me that Tesla provided a car to MotorTrend with different firmware allowing more battery power to be consumed during the 1/4 mile run. Common sense would suggest they would only do this once they were ready to release that update to the P90DL fleet.

That makes sense. Hope you are right. I'd like to see an update that gets the trap speed to 122.

Would love to see a back to back comparison going from the 21"s to a lighter wheel/tire combo.

 

[lolachampcar]

I wish I knew someone with a VBox as I have TSWs on my car now and the original 19" OEM wheels/tires sitting in my hangar. It would be a hour long effort to do some runs as is, swap to the 19s for a few runs then back to the TSWs so we can offset any effect of state of charge. The TSWs are over 10 lbs per wheel lighter with most of that mass being removed from the rim area (lower rotational inertia so even better acceleration). My car is also no-pano and no rear seats.

 

[ArtInCT]

Looks like Pano adds about 120#.
First Tesla UNDER 3.0 seconds?

Cattledog:
That is good info. Lets estimate the premium interior adding 40 pounds, the sound system another 40 (speakers) the cold weather package 20 so that would be about 200 extra pounds or similar to having a passenger in the car all the time. Or about .37 pounds per horsepower on the P90DL...

 

[Olle]

Cattledog:
That is good info. Lets estimate the premium interior adding 40 pounds, the sound system another 40 (speakers) the cold weather package 20 so that would be about 200 extra pounds or similar to having a passenger in the car all the time. Or about .37 pounds per horsepower on the P90DL...

I just checked out the max performance button in the configurator. Obviosly it added Ludicrous upgrade and left out the other options, except Air suspension and 21 inch wheels. Anyone know why it includes these?

 

[ArtInCT]

I just checked out the max performance button in the configurator. Obviosly it added Ludicrous upgrade and left out the other options, except Air suspension and 21 inch wheels. Anyone know why it includes these?

Sticky rubber and some minimal downforce at speed?

 

[Olle]

Sticky rubber and some minimal downforce at speed?

sticky rubber could be mounted on 19s as well. and why the air suspension?

 

[ArtInCT]

Reduction of air turbulance under the automobile?

 

[jkn]

10.9second 1/4-mile from such a heavy car with "only" 532hp. Is that potentially the true testiment to the superiority of the EV-drivetrain over the ICE?

Any ICE even close to those numbers able to pull a 11.4(as actual P90D-owners do)?

I don't know where 532 hp comes from. But it is a reasonable number:
532 hp = 396.71233 kW
Assuming total mass 2200 kg

With 1.1 g first 0.3048 m takes 0.238 s

For some reason 1.1 g was only up to 14 mph = 6.25856 m/s -> 0.580 s

Then I'm guessing 1 g to 396712/(2200 * 9.81) = 18.3816 m/s = 41 mph
(18.3816 - 6.25856)/9.81 = 1.236 s

Then acceleration with constant power from 41 to 60 mph
2200*(26.8224^2 - 18.3816^2)/2/396712.33 = 1.058 s

Total 0.580 s + 1.236 s + 1.058 s - 0.238 s = 2.636 s

I don't think acceleration drops sharply from 1.1 to 1.0 at 14 mph, so result 2.636 s is slightly too long.

 

[darthy001]

@jkn the number is from Teslas website.