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More than 1,000 U.S. Signatures (confirmed)
- Thread starter brianman
- Start date
NigelM
Recovering Member
As a (soon to be) Sig owner I'd really like to disagree with you but it's tough. CF parts can easily and relatively cheaply be replaced.
Heck even celebrity owned Tesla's have not held their value, Clooney's roadster only sold for $99,000. The only benefit of a Signature reservation is jumping ahead in line and getting your car first. The Signature red color is nice but will not add much in the way of resale value. History may show that Non-Signature red, Signature Model S' may be worth more; as they will probably be rarer.
In the whole scheme of things any Model S will never be a valuable car, the value of Electric Cars are directly tied to the capacity of the battery.
I believe that the Model S changes that. The reason is that prior to the Model S there was a hefty labour fee to change out the battery. The Model S' battery can be changed in less than five minutes, so installing a new battery is really only the price of a new battery.
Labor is not the main cost of a battery replacement. On this website and in the infamous bricking story, the cost of replacing a roadster battery was somewhere in the range of 40k-all inclusive. The labor portion of this total cost is far less than 10% of the 40k. Even if Tesla were to charge $120 an hour that would be 33 hours. The r&r labor is a VERY small portion of the actual battery cost.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
At some point I would expect a used Model S to be able to get a new battery pack at a competitive price and end up with better than new performance and range. Until the market actually sees that happening resale values may be lower, but should pop up when the potential is finally realized.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Find someone to build you a different pack with different cells, and a way to cool the motor and PEM more effectively :wink: Of course range will suffer.
I think the true value of the Signature is "you get your car early". I'm guessing that both the Model S volume and the Signature volume are too high for collectible value unless you're looking at 20+ years down the line.
I'm basing my thinking on Ferrari -- who makes 5-8K cars a year and when they make limited editions, I think those production runs are in the hundreds not thousands. Those low volumes are what make the cars collectible very quickly.
If Tesla is cranking out >20K Model S's a year and only realy difference between Signature and standard is the color and the VIN, I don't think the Signature will command a significant premium unless you find a buyer who really values that and is willing to pay. I think your odds on that are pretty low over the next few years. Decades from now, the # of surviving Signature cars will be pretty low which will drive the collectible value way up. But at that point, I don't think people will care if it's a US Signature or a Canadian Signature.
So it's hard for me to get worked up about shifting some Signature sales from the Canada to the US.
I could be wrong but that's my 2 cents.
I'm basing my thinking on Ferrari -- who makes 5-8K cars a year and when they make limited editions, I think those production runs are in the hundreds not thousands. Those low volumes are what make the cars collectible very quickly.
If Tesla is cranking out >20K Model S's a year and only realy difference between Signature and standard is the color and the VIN, I don't think the Signature will command a significant premium unless you find a buyer who really values that and is willing to pay. I think your odds on that are pretty low over the next few years. Decades from now, the # of surviving Signature cars will be pretty low which will drive the collectible value way up. But at that point, I don't think people will care if it's a US Signature or a Canadian Signature.
So it's hard for me to get worked up about shifting some Signature sales from the Canada to the US.
I could be wrong but that's my 2 cents.
If you have a 40kWh or 60kWh model you don't need a new battery. 40kWh: Buy a used 60kWh battery with 70% remaining. 60kWh: Buy a used 85kWh battery with 70% remaining. 85kWh: Buy a new battery and sell you old one to someone with a worn-out 40/60kWh battery.
That might or might not work. When I had the battery in my RAV4-EV replaced it wasn't due to the (modest) drop in range. It was because some of the modules had developed high internal resistance and couldn't deliver current efficiently anymore. The result was degraded power that was noticeable when climbing hills. Li+ may degrade differently from the RAV's NiMH, but I think it's important to remember that battery degradation may not be purely about capacity.
I'm an old car guy who owns a few classics from the 30's and 40's and recognize that it is possible that the Signature will be recognized as the first of a series of automobiles that changed the way we look at, evaluate, and make decisions about the type of propulsion that powers our vehicles. If this turns out to be the case, the Signature, because it was the first of the first, may command a higher value, perhaps much higher. We won't know for decades.
I like the way "only 1000 cars are to be produced in the US" sounds and have used that figure when discussing my purchase. I even chose red over white because it is unique to the Sig. I don't even want to acknowledge that more than 1000 means that Canadians don't value this like I do. The 1000 number contributed to my decision to pay the extra fee to be in that select group.
Even then scarcity is only one factor in determining the future value of a car. Consider the relatively modest value of the Ford Edsel which had disappointing production numbers versus the first Ford Mustangs which have a very high value despite the much larger production. Certainly the best thing we have going for us is that this vehicle is a good looking car that is truly revolutionary. Five years from now there will be bigger, more powerful batteries that will make this car pale in comparison. Resale value won't be great.
But the Tesla will be the first, and the Signatures will be leading the way. I'm happy to be part of that group.
I like the way "only 1000 cars are to be produced in the US" sounds and have used that figure when discussing my purchase. I even chose red over white because it is unique to the Sig. I don't even want to acknowledge that more than 1000 means that Canadians don't value this like I do. The 1000 number contributed to my decision to pay the extra fee to be in that select group.
Even then scarcity is only one factor in determining the future value of a car. Consider the relatively modest value of the Ford Edsel which had disappointing production numbers versus the first Ford Mustangs which have a very high value despite the much larger production. Certainly the best thing we have going for us is that this vehicle is a good looking car that is truly revolutionary. Five years from now there will be bigger, more powerful batteries that will make this car pale in comparison. Resale value won't be great.
But the Tesla will be the first, and the Signatures will be leading the way. I'm happy to be part of that group.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
I think that is the best way to be looking at it. The Olympic motto so to speak.
After all, this is not a rare Ferrari or some other extremely "valuable" car. It is a groundbreaker, true, but that alone won't guarantee premium resale value, neither for GP nor for Sig models.
I'm guessing based on what future Model S's will probably offer for the money you pay for them, the Sigs will not have any resale premium at all, as they are the most basic of them all - apart from the Sig red colour and badging nothing is really special about them.
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