And in fact it looks like tesla has already surpassed the Cadillac super cruise lol with the latest OTA updates to .40 and .42. The Cadillac is still not even at dealerships lol.
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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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Here in the UK, I'd rather deal with a traditional dealership
(I can't stress to you how disorganised UK Service Centers are, I have had everything from multiple loaners turn up at my office to government fines through their ineptitude )I looked at trading in my car for a newer one, and there was still haggling. Not over the price of the new car, but in the trade-in value of the old one.
We also are at a big disadvantage regarding buying the latest. A case in point would be the P90D -> P100D. Because of the lag getting it over to the UK, owners were being expected to take delivery of a "top of the line" car (which is let's face it is why you are paying buying a P). However even as their cars were sailing their way across the Atlantic, the P100D was launched. Many owners threatened to forfeit their deposit and re-order. Desperate to hit Q end numbers Tesla UK promised pack upgrades if people took immediate delivery.
AFAIK they are still waiting.
I'm sure it's great in California, but please, please realise the picture is far from rosy the further you get from Fremont.
badboy1980
Member
Do you guys think Elon will announce anything on this subject in November when he is expected to show us the truck?
Probably was going to, but missed so bad on everything + federal tax credit going away (lever)... they do not need to change anything.
Probably people will say waste of rescourses that could have gone to 3
Oh, there is definitely going to be surprises at the Semi unveiling.... BIG surprises... like not enough toilet paper in the stalls, some new techno music by Jamiroquai, and even potentially even a nice unveiling of pastries. Can't wait.
After watching the new model 3 review it would be hard for anyone to justify buying the current model 3.
They seem to have been listening to customers. The interior looks great. Model S is great just needs a refresh on the interior.
It will be interesting to see if an interior refresh of the model s is mentioned at the event. Fingers crossed.
They seem to have been listening to customers. The interior looks great. Model S is great just needs a refresh on the interior.
It will be interesting to see if an interior refresh of the model s is mentioned at the event. Fingers crossed.
Grassright
Member
SucreTease
Teslarian
This kind of upsets me, as I am eager to order a Model S. However, the Model 3 contains every one of the things missing on the Model S that every other $35k car has: door pockets, a proper center console with real storage and cup holders in a usable place, coat hangers, light vanity mirrors in the sun visors, sliding sun visors, adjustable-height seat belt shoulder anchors, and fast map dragging and rotating. And it not only has all of them, but each one is well-implemented. Oh, and the wipers naturally sit under the edge of the hood so they are out of the airflow to reduce wind noise. The Model 3 really feels like the Model S done right. None of these things are going to be fixed in the Model S by an over-the-air update.
Every one of these are things people have been complaining about in the Model S for years. Why in the hell are these not already in the Model S?!! Elon promised that the Model S would always have more advanced tech than the Model 3. How about at least as advanced on the low-tech as the Model 3?!!
Every one of these are things people have been complaining about in the Model S for years. Why in the hell are these not already in the Model S?!! Elon promised that the Model S would always have more advanced tech than the Model 3. How about at least as advanced on the low-tech as the Model 3?!!
Completely impossible. The $7500 lasts for 1 quarter after the quarter they hit 200,000. The $7500 also lasts through the quarter when the level is hit. If they hit it tomorrow (also impossible), the incentive will last until the end of March 2018.
According to my calculations from adding up the numbers on InsideEvs scorecard, Tesla was at 148,681 US sales at the end of October. They would have to sell 52,000 cars in two months. The most US deliveries they have had in a month was December last year when they delivers a little over 9000 US cars. And if they were close to 200,000 at the end of the year, all they need to do is delay enough deliveries until January and then the full incentive will last until the end of June. A diminished incentive will still be there for a full year after the $7500 runs out.
It is possible they will see a surge of Model 3 production in the next two months, but I still think they will just push off some deliveries to January to ensure the credit goes away with the maximum runway possible. It's more likely they will hit the mark around April 1 next year which will push the sunset date for the $7500 to the end of September. Remember only US sales count against the incentive. If the Model 3 ramps up and it looks like they will hit the mark before April 1, they can start sales in Canada early. They could also crank up to build demonstrator and showroom Model 3s too. Those will be sold eventually, but after April 1.
Tesla is currently delivering about 12,500 Model S and X in the US per quarter. Without counting Model 3 sales they will sell about 11,000 Model S/X in the US this year putting them around 160,000. Even if they deliver 10,000 Model 3 in the next two months, they will still be sitting around 170,000. That gives them 30,000 sales to manage Q1 2018 to push the mark to April 1.
If all the Model 3 problems are ironed out and they ramp up faster than anticipated, then they might hit the mark somewhere in Q1, but if they continue to have any problems at all, it will likely be early Q2.
Actually the slow launch could be a blessing in disguise for the reservation holders. If they have a sudden jump in production numbers in late Q1, those will be delivered early Q2 and they will be at fairly high volume of production for the last 6 months of the full tax credit. Maximizing the number of people who can get the full credit.
Though a lot of Model 3 buyers are going to find they don't qualify for the full credit. You have to owe over $7500 in federal income taxes and a lot of Model 3 buyers aren't going to make that kind of money. My income is more typical of a Model 3 buyer and I didn't use the full $7500 credit when I bought my Model S.
@wdolson
I think @SucreTease is referring to this:
House Republicans propose to scrap $7,500 electric vehicle credit
I'm not close enough on US politics to know if the proposed bill will go through as is. My understanding, is if it does then the $7500 credit will stop irrespective of cars produced from 1 Jan 18
There is a small silver lining. At some point Tesla would have been disadvantaged against EVs from the likes of Audi/MB/JLR, because those brands would still have plenty headroom to build eligible cars, vs Tesla who would have exhausted their eligibility.
To be honest I always thought the per manufacturer aspect was daft, as it incentivised delaying entry to market. If it had been a set number across the whole industry then the ploy of waiting until the early guys had exhausted their allowance, jumping in later against a backdrop of cheaper batteries was always a definite strategic option.
I think @SucreTease is referring to this:
House Republicans propose to scrap $7,500 electric vehicle credit
I'm not close enough on US politics to know if the proposed bill will go through as is. My understanding, is if it does then the $7500 credit will stop irrespective of cars produced from 1 Jan 18
There is a small silver lining. At some point Tesla would have been disadvantaged against EVs from the likes of Audi/MB/JLR, because those brands would still have plenty headroom to build eligible cars, vs Tesla who would have exhausted their eligibility.
To be honest I always thought the per manufacturer aspect was daft, as it incentivised delaying entry to market. If it had been a set number across the whole industry then the ploy of waiting until the early guys had exhausted their allowance, jumping in later against a backdrop of cheaper batteries was always a definite strategic option.
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sillydriver
Member
I was unaware that had been proposed until I saw it in another thread after writing that. From what I've heard the tax plan is probably dead in the Senate. They claim they want to get rid of the EV tax credit because it favors the rich (which it does as it is currently structured), but they have all sorts of other pork in the tax plan to help the wealthy. Basically they only want to get rid of tax breaks they see as primarily used by liberals.
The Republicans may get something stripped down through, but they probably aren't going to get everything they are proposing now. In the House they just need a straight up vote and they have a fairly good majority. The Senate is a different picture. A number of Senators have been very rebellious lately and the Republicans only have a 2 seat margin (effectively three with the tie breaking vote of the vice president). Three Republican Senators feel they have nothing to lose, two are retiring and one is probably dying of a brain tumor. There are also two fairly moderate Senators who have stood up to the insanity and were instrumental in killing the repeal of the ACA.
I do agree that repealing the tax incentive now would just help Tesla and it would put other automakers at a disadvantage when they really needed it. I think Tesla will have little trouble selling Model 3s without a tax break, but other automakers will find it tough selling their cars.
i agree....why would anyone get a model s over a model 3? well a few reasons stick out.1) because the s is avail now i guess but i mean who "has" to buy a car on a deadline?? Its the worst investment anyone can make with their money(thats why wealthy people collect sports cars: because they can and dont really care about devalue...sure some say they will go up in price but finding people who will buy them at x% over what they bought them for is not easy(.00001% maybe) )
2) Because if teslas track record is to be followed the 1st 2 years of the new model will have issues and fit and finish issues( the s still has them and yea its true telsa could have learned from the s in this respect and the m3 cars will be alot more uniform??
But in the end the 3 as it is , is more tech advanced then the s even in wiper blades/door pockets/lighted vanity mirrors/faster screen times and resolution/storage spaces in the car/sturdier door handles with 2 releases/coat hooks/better lighting on the road. And the range is decent....at 35-45k its a no brainer....why pay 2x as much for the s model lowest model????? and a lr d model 3 at 60k would be a killer deal compared to the s as well....
After watching that vid of the 3(dont care for the guys much) it does have everything the s SHOULD already have for 1/2 or more the cost of the s. Think about it......what a letdown to s owners. Even the finish inside is as nice (maybe nicer) then the model s. The fact that tesla priced it at 35k makes me think we got totally ripped off at 80-90k for the 60/75d. But of course it tesla and the way of technology in all forms-look at flat screen tv 5 yrs ago-10k...now 2k.....or less....
I think the real question is for people who bought into the s and bought into the lowest s because of $$$(cost) and plan to keep it till it dies is really when will it die and how much $$ will i have to keep throwing into it. At 80-90k this is a serious question....At 35k not so mateer of fact really...
I feel the 3 has superseded the s model today. In every way. Siue no hatchback and no 2nd display and a slightly smaller screen-so what? How many of you guys use a 13" macbook or pc now compared to a 15-17" laptop years ago and do fine???
Lets all face it.The s is history. A major refresh is needed in so many ways or a serious s model price adjust is eminent.And dont use the whole bmw 3/5/7 series argument.Totally different game with them. If tesla thinks that a send 0-60 is enough to warrant the major price diff they are sorely mistaken for the average driver. That a party trick and they know it.
100% agree. They have a real problem on their hands with the S as it is and the only reason they’re getting away with it is because the 3 isn’t being produced at high enough levels yet.
finally someone agrees with me....Koolaid must be wearing off- seriously though i say just drop the model s pricepoint to be more realistic. Its that simple really. Offer a little more size/liftgate/diff screen(not really any better) and if anything use range as the real difference to justify some pricepoint diff. I mean the 3 looks as nice if not nicer then the s and features pretty much same options except better more solid door handles and wiper blades and a faster screen resolution along with better onboard in door and console storage and just as nice interior finishing. So lower the s price to be more reasonable for the 75/85 d model and leave the p modles expensive for people who have the $$$$ and think they need the speed....take their money. But the s is realistically a 60k(65 with upgrades) car in the 60/75d .Not 80-90k.
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I agree with you even worse is the Model 3 with larger battery pack gets better millage then the base Model S cars. Lets hope Tesla has a surprise for us later this month. All the Model S really needs now is to have a similar interior to the Model 3 plus new wipers with the washer jets & HUD (Heads Up Display), Revised headlights to improve visibility at night.
2017 Tesla Model S
I also beileve a lot of us Model S owners are not aware of how good the new Model 3 car is.
With more companies making EV cars it will not be long before Tesla looses it's crown if they do not respond quickly.
I'm really not a big fan of the aesthetics or design choices for the Model 3, but I do agree with your reservations about the price point for the Model S. I rented a Model S last weekend to evaluate the car. It's clearly a solid car, but the technology on board seems a bit outdated. There are cars on the market that are at least half the price point with almost all of the same features or better. I've also seen people on TMC say that the Model S is basically a $40K car with $30K electric drive. I'm holding off on buying until the end of the month to see if there are any developments. If not, I'm probably going to move on to other manufacturers.
Grassright
Member
The price is unlikely to be lowered. In yesterday's earning call, Elon mentioned that he want to increase the profit margin for S/X, as they are too low now...
Grassright
Member
Better not wait. I don't see imminent change happens before Model 3 production issue is resolved. Let alone the risk $7500 is gone if the new bill pass.
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