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Model S owners - what would You do if the child seats won´t make it into production?

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Yes - but I think that the approval is part of the 'due bill'. I agree with Nigel's remarks regarding it's unlikely that Elon would be using his kids as a testbed ... the odds of Tesla not coming thru on this is highly unlikely. And again, as I noted, if I'd ordered the seats and I did not get what I ordered, there would be a contractual issue to work out with Tesla.

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The original post said nothing about if the seats didn't pass testing, only if you never received them. I agree that it would be not good if the seats didn't pass testing - but that wasn't how I read the first post.

Hope you're right, chances are they will be approved, but the fact that Elon's using them is fairly irrelevant. I know that the Prius v has a 3rd row seat in Japan, but didn't meet US standards, so we don't have it. I don't know what the minimum standards are here, and even if the S meets that standard but it dropped the rear crash rating down from a 5 star, would that meet Elon's standard?


Evan, Via Tapatalk
 
It's only irrelevant if you're suggesting that Elon is driving his kids around in unapproved car seats (is that legal in California?). Afterthought - sorry to be pedantic; actually I personally think this is a bit of an irrelevant discussion.

I suspect they're not approved in fact, what makes you think they have been approved? I think they're a prototype that he feels are safe and made an individual decision. Not being approved doesn't mean illegal, just means they can't be sold to the general public.


Evan, Via Tapatalk
 
Not being approved doesn't mean illegal, just means they can't be sold to the general public.

I meant would it be illegal in California to carry your kids on public roads in seats that are not approved? I'm more than happy to take your word for it as I have no idea and in any case we're at risk of getting way off topic with that discussion although I'm still not sure what the topic really is.....
 
I meant would it be illegal in California to carry your kids on public roads in seats that are not approved? I'm more than happy to take your word for it as I have no idea and in any case we're at risk of getting way off topic with that discussion although I'm still not sure what the topic really is.....

I was thinking more along the lines of it would be beyond foolish to carry your kids on public roads in seats that are not approved AND have photos published that your ex-wife could use as evidence that you do not care about their safety.

Screw the safety testing, be very afraid of the ex-spouse.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of it would be beyond foolish to carry your kids on public roads in seats that are not approved AND have photos published that your ex-wife could use as evidence that you do not care about their safety.

Screw the safety testing, be very afraid of the ex-spouse.

LOL! Hell hath no fury.....


Evan, Via Tapatalk
 
We have 3 young children and the rear facing seats are very important to us. We finalized our build prior to the concern arising that no cars were delivering with the rear facing seats. The rear seats are a deal breaker for us, so if they aren't installed at the factory, we cannot take delivery of the car.

I have emailed Tesla every few weeks for an update. They are pretty mum on why the seats are not yet available, but they are also adamant that they will be soon. The last email I received regarding the rear facing seats was yesterday and states, "We still expect rear-facing child to be factory installed in the very near future."
 
Apologies if I offend sensibilities with the heavy-handed nature of this response, or if it seems a bit extreme, but there are some considerations in answering this question that I have not seen mentioned here that to me are quite important:

I think that those that say these jump seats are unimportant are not thinking in visionary terms, particularly when they make comments like "just wait for the Model X." Sorry to say it, but that is Detroit thinking IMHO.

Detroit fails in many cases because it gets into a paradigm for a given vehicle class and then cannot think outside the box. Hummers were the ultimate example of this, and a good chunk of America was along for the ride, suffocating mother nature in the name of bored trophy wives' mall parking bling. About the only legitimate purchasers of that car were the military and backcountry tour operators with very few exceptions. Otherwise they were pretty much pure vanity as there were many other options for interior space and off road capability if you just needed a car to get the kids up to a ski slope or something.

Elon has come along and been an outside the box thinker from the start. He is redefining what a sedan is / can be.

In the past, if you wanted to seat 7 for your kids' soccer carpool, then you had either an SUV or a minivan to choose from. Neither are very green. In dys of old you could buy a station wagon and throw kids in the back if you were not child safety conscious, or throw them in the back of a pickup truck. Outside Native American reservations though these solutions are generally frowned upon these days in the interests of our children, for good reason (on the res there are other considerations but they are beyond the scope of this discussion and way off topic). If you see a few kids from highway accidents that were not properly restrained, then this is very quickly apparent. So in the name of safety and practicality we were sold the notions that SUVs and minivans were our only modern options.

If you wanted an electric car, you needed to sacrifice the # of passengers and performance compared to other standard sedans, let alone a sports sedan.

But now with the Model S, we have a combination of a sports Sedan, a minivan, and a green EV with performance and utility that is astonishing... all because Tesla dares to think outside the box and not be beholden to oil merchants like Detroit is, or to thinking that definitions of a given vehicle class are rigid. To suggest that one should wait for the SUV to have a 3rd row is thinking like typical auto manufacturers.

I already have a minivan because I am at that soccer carpool stage of life. If I could have bought an electric one with a reasonable range I would have. This car is replacing an SUV for me. The jump seats are a deal breaker. And whether your family needs them or not, they are very important to the success of this car and in being a catalyst for outside the box solutions in the auto industry instead of the same old crap that has had us locked into earth-killing, troop-endangering ICE vehicles all this time.

So, while I am clearly showing my political leanings, I think that it is possible to have our cake and eat it too... quite in defiance of the mantras originating from the motor city all this time. Tesla is proving that. And I think anyone can agree that if we don't wreck the economy to do it, then passing on a breathable atmosphere with a pleasant climate is an important thing to do for our great great grandchildren, and putting people in danger or leaving one's country politically beholden to another that is less scrupulous simply because they have something you need are all things that should be considered in the car design and purchase equation. And a few of us might even think that trading some of the economy for these things is sometimes reasonable, but again that would be way off topic and far too political.

In any case, these jump seats are important in ways far beyond whether any one of our families need more than 5 seats. Hell, most of Utah could switch off of SUVs and minivans with this car, and they have plenty of sun for solar panels so they could do it without any need for oil if they so desired.

This is certainly not the first car to use jump seats. Volvo, Land Rover, and others have done it in the past. But the combination of all these attributes is something you won't find in a Panamera, a Sienna, an M5, or a Leaf. And you certainly won't find this all blended in something coming out of Detroit any time soon. Tesla is setting a new paradigm here and one in which the jump seats play a fairly big role. They set our to prove that an electric car can be the best car in the world. The right car for everyone. I think they are on the cusp of succeeding, which although strangely missed by a certain ex presidential candidate has been well recognized by others with expertise in this area, such as Motor Trend, Automobile Magazine, Yahoo, etc... as well as those who have already taken delivery--even without having the jump seats yet.

So to summarize, the jump seats are quite important IMHO.

Having said that, I think that the chances of them not ever becoming part of the car are next to nil. Elon is a bit stubborn when it comes to innovations. So glad that he is. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
 
Apologies if I offend sensibilities with the heavy-handed nature of this response, or if it seems a bit extreme, but there are some considerations in answering this question that I have not seen mentioned here that to me are quite important:

Well, since we're getting a bit political here, let me throw in my 2-cents:

I really feel that if we're going to start talking about environmental impacts, sustainability and so forth, then we need to look at root causes and ask ourselves what are we doing having children in the first place? Thousands of kids on this planet die every hour, just of malnutrition alone. Yes, I’ve raised two kids myself – both adopted.

Nothing gets my blood boiling more than some guy (or gal) with a bunch of kids in tow criticizing my choice of automobile (and yes, it has happened multiple times) when just one of those little new “consumers” is going to do far more harm to the environment over a lifetime than my choice to drive a car that gets a few MPG less than something else.

But back to the issue of the jump seats, it still seems like a very niche option when there are a number of other, more widely valued things still missing from the car. I’m not trying to say that there aren’t any people who value the jump seats – clearly there are, but since the usefulness is limited to a child between (I think) 5 and 10 years of age, that “window of opportunity” in a child’s age seems to limit the number of potential candidates for the seats.

As a further point, I’m not sure I’d want kids crawling in and out over the back bumper, scratching the car up in the process – I’d rather have a vehicle that can properly seat 7 kids and/or adults and/or kids who would have outgrown jump seats (i.e a Model X or similar).

For those who want the seats, I truly hope they become available to you, but I for one am glad they are an option I don’t have to pay for.
 
Nothing gets my blood boiling more than some guy (or gal) with a bunch of kids in tow criticizing my choice of automobile (and yes, it has happened multiple times) when just one of those little new “consumers” is going to do far more harm to the environment over a lifetime than my choice to drive a car that gets a few MPG less than something else.

Egads what were you driving, a hummer? I had no idea we had people like that in Ontario... (You clearly have issues if you criticize someone to their face about what they drive... :)

As a further point, I’m not sure I’d want kids crawling in and out over the back bumper, scratching the car up in the process – I’d rather have a vehicle that can properly seat 7 kids and/or adults and/or kids who would have outgrown jump seats (i.e a Model X or similar).

I'm with you on this one.... Although I only have 3 kids. If I had >3 I think I'd be holding out for Model X (and ditching the minivan instead).
 
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Egads what were you driving, a hummer? I had no idea we had people like that in Ontario... (You clearly have issues if you criticize someone to their face about what they drive... :)

The vehicle that seemed to draw the most ire was a GMC Envoy SUV, which actually got fairly decent mileage with it's in-line 6. But you know, even the newer Hummers (like the H3, which was based on the Envoy platform) was not that bad as far as gas mileage goes. SUVs in general, and Hummers in specific just seem to draw fire. I got comments in shopping mall lots and once even in traffic at a light! Maybe (likely) it's a Toronto thing. I've even got one comment about driving a "great big" Cadillac! It's a little CTS, for God's sake!
 
mknox: Agree with the root cause analysis. Less people = less pollution. I only have 2 kids. But when carpooling I need to carry more, or when there are 4-5 adults then I can shuffle the 2 kids to the back and voila! no need for the ICE minivan.

About the rear bumper: I'm going to keep this car a long time. If it doesn't have some major defect I will probably change out the battery and keep driving it once the 1st one is uselessly depleted a number of years after I take delivery. With kids, I have to expect that some cosmetics will be less than ideal, so I am not as worried about this. However, I do try to keep my car looking as nice as possible. I have seen a version of a trunk liner with a fold out rear bumper cover that you only use when loading and unloading and then it tucks back into the trunk. I may go this route to address this very issue with child entry and exit.

Personally I would not at all call this a niche option. # of passengers that can fit is pretty central to vehicle choice in my experience. Opinions may vary (and clearly do!).

I certainly respect and appreciate your perspective.

Cheers

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mknox: Agree with the root cause analysis. Less people = less pollution. I only have 2 kids. But when carpooling I need to carry more, or when there are 4-5 adults then I can shuffle the 2 kids to the back and voila! no need for the ICE minivan.

About the rear bumper: I'm going to keep this car a long time. If it doesn't have some major defect I will probably change out the battery and keep driving it once the 1st one is uselessly depleted a number of years after I take delivery. With kids, I have to expect that some cosmetics will be less than ideal, so I am not as worried about this. However, I do try to keep my car looking as nice as possible. I have seen a version of a trunk liner with a fold out rear bumper cover that you only use when loading and unloading and then it tucks back into the trunk. I may go this route to address this very issue with child entry and exit.

Personally I would not at all call this a niche option. # of passengers that can fit is pretty central to vehicle choice in my experience. Opinions may vary (and clearly do!).

I certainly respect and appreciate your perspective.

Cheers
 
Personally I would not at all call this a niche option. # of passengers that can fit is pretty central to vehicle choice in my experience. Opinions may vary (and clearly do!).

Niche was probably the wrong word to use. I was simply thinking that the number of buyers with jumpseat-aged kids vs. the total number of buyers has got to be a pretty small per-centage overall. It does speak to the demographics of the Model S buyer, though.

I certainly respect and appreciate your perspective.

As do I yours...
 
I have to disagree that less people=less pollution. I have 4 kids and produce significantly less garbage, use way less fuel, and are much more efficient with the dollars we spend than friends who have 1 or 2 kids. Lifestyle is a far greater factor, along with food delivery systems (local production of food is astronoically less wasteful than our current nation-wide supermarket systems). There is much to be said for responsible large families.

To the point of jump seats, yes, I'd be smart to wait for the X, although as others have mentioned Falcon doors simply don't work with roof racks, so some of us actually have no option. In the end, though, for Tesla there is only one metric: Elon Musk wants them. It will happen. :) I'm glad he has lots of kids.

The current question for me is: what do I do while I wait for my jump seats? I'll probably have my car for several weeks minimum before getting them, so it means keeping one SUV, and not being able to drive my whole family in the S, which they are all longing to do (because I keep saying, "when we get our electric car, x will be better/not happen anymore/etc"
 
I'm with you on this one.... Although I only have 3 kids. If I had >3 I think I'd be holding out for Model X (and ditching the minivan instead).

You pretty much summed up my master plan (insert evil cackle here).

Model S with jump seats as my daily driver, and to haul the whole family when needed, without using gas (I have 4 kids, the oldest is 8).

Once my current family mover (Sienna AWD) falls apart, replace with Model X, conveniently when kids are bigger.

MUHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaaaaaa (cough cough)...

I agree with Ceilidh that this is the ONLY vehicle that can offer such a combination of features, albeit for a select market. I get to drive my cake and eat it too.
 
Slightly off topic, but it appears the regular rear seat doesn't have the seemingly standard anchor points for child seats that in other cars I own are tucked in the crease between the seat back and the actual seat. Am I wrong on this point?
 
Slightly off topic, but it appears the regular rear seat doesn't have the seemingly standard anchor points for child seats that in other cars I own are tucked in the crease between the seat back and the actual seat. Am I wrong on this point?

Yes, you're mistaken.

There are anchor points available for all three rear seats, although only 2 of the positions can be used at one time for seats.
 
Yes, you're mistaken.

There are anchor points available for all three rear seats, although only 2 of the positions can be used at one time for seats.

I'd swear that there was a picture from sometime ago - the Fremont Get Amped event? - wherein there were three car seats tethered across the entire rear bench in a beta on display!

Was one of the seats anchored with just the seat belt, maybe?!
 
There are anchor points available for all three rear seats, although only 2 of the positions can be used at one time for seats.

Yeah, that's right. Our Acura MDX has 6 latch points, and we had to look very hard to find that. I was able to fit one sub-40 pound baby seat and two sub-80 pound boosters in the back of the S, with one of the boosters attached via the three-point belt.

Hello current and future owners,
What would You do, if they never see the light?

I would consider this is a fundamental breach of what Tesla promised to deliver. The jump seats were an important part of our decision to purchase, and if they do not appear I would expect Tesla to make us whole beyond the $1500.