Model 3 side collision avoidance - friend or foe?

[alstoralset]

Since getting the M3 last year, I have periodically gotten "false" alarms from the collision avoidance system. I don't have autopilot, and have collision detection set to the default of "Medium." M3 has firmware version 2019.16.2.

These alarms normally occur around curves on streets without lane makings, when approaching parked cars, but occasionally occur when (safely, from my perspective) approaching a stopped car on a straight, fully marked road.

These events have resulted in nothing more than a startling alarm, and I have considered it a small price to pay for potentially avoiding an accident. Until today.

This morning I was rounding a curve on a three lane, well marked road (40 MPH speed limit). Two semis occupied the two oncoming lanes. The closest truck was about a foot or so within its lane, and definitely not crossing into oncoming traffic.

The collision alert sounded, but this time the car moderately swerved into the narrow bike lane to the right of my single lane, and a "Collision avoidance activated" (or similar) message briefly appeared. I was able to wrest control back, and return to my lane.

I believe the following statements are accurate:

1) The M3 falsely perceived an imminent collision. All vehicles were well within their lanes, and no threat existed.
2) The M3 responded to this misperception by moderately (not aggressively) swerving the car out of its lane, into a narrow bike lane.
3) From examining the Autopilot menu settings, I don't see a way of turning off the side collision avoidance behavior. If there's not a way, I own a car that has faulty situational awareness, and could take control of the steering at any time based on incorrect conclusions, without prior warning.

A shower of "what if's" come to mind, such as:

1) Can the M3 can reliably detect people or bicycles? If it cannot, there's an obvious problem with the above behavior. It's poor etiquette to run over a bicyclist to avoid a collision with another "exoskeletal" vehicle, IMO.

2) Will the car be able to reliably detect situations where there is no shoulder? Or will it swerve into the ditch, or worse?

I'm a bit shaken by this event, and would love feedback! I did a verbal "bug report" after the incident happened, and saved the video footage, which I reviewed to confirm my recollection of the events.

 

[ChrisH]

Since getting the M3 last year, I have periodically gotten "false" alarms from the collision avoidance system. I don't have autopilot, and have collision detection set to the default of "Medium." M3 has firmware version 2019.16.2.

These alarms normally occur around curves on streets without lane makings, when approaching parked cars, but occasionally occur when (safely, from my perspective) approaching a stopped car on a straight, fully marked road.

These events have resulted in nothing more than a startling alarm, and I have considered it a small price to pay for potentially avoiding an accident. Until today.

This morning I was rounding a curve on a three lane, well marked road (40 MPH speed limit). Two semis occupied the two oncoming lanes. The closest truck was about a foot or so within its lane, and definitely not crossing into oncoming traffic.

The collision alert sounded, but this time the car moderately swerved into the narrow bike lane to the right of my single lane, and a "Collision avoidance activated" (or similar) message briefly appeared. I was able to wrest control back, and return to my lane.

I believe the following statements are accurate:

1) The M3 falsely perceived an imminent collision. All vehicles were well within their lanes, and no threat existed.
2) The M3 responded to this misperception by moderately (not aggressively) swerving the car out of its lane, into a narrow bike lane.
3) From examining the Autopilot menu settings, I don't see a way of turning off the side collision avoidance behavior. If there's not a way, I own a car that has faulty situational awareness, and could take control of the steering at any time based on incorrect conclusions, without prior warning.

A shower of "what if's" come to mind, such as:

1) Can the M3 can reliably detect people or bicycles? If it cannot, there's an obvious problem with the above behavior. It's poor etiquette to run over a bicyclist to avoid a collision with another "exoskeletal" vehicle, IMO.

2) Will the car be able to reliably detect situations where there is no shoulder? Or will it swerve into the ditch, or worse?

I'm a bit shaken by this event, and would love feedback! I did a verbal "bug report" after the incident happened, and saved the video footage, which I reviewed to confirm my recollection of the events.

Would be interesting to see the footage if you don’t mind sharing.

 

[alstoralset]

Chris, here's a screen grab of what triggered the event. Will explore uploading the footage tomorrow.

 

[ChrisH]

Chris, here's a screen grab of what triggered the event. Will explore uploading the footage tomorrow.

Very interesting. The trucks weren’t even in the front of the vehicle on the curve (if that makes sense). I could see the car getting confused if the trucks were on a curve in front of the car but they weren’t!

 

[Fernand]

@alstoralset welcome. If the past is any guide, you're going to get comments from the vocal anti-automation live free contingent. So let me get in my two cents worth. Most of all, don't freak out. Yes, the car keeps getting better at distinguishing its surroundings. And as of 2019.12.2 the screen more clearly displays pedestrians, bikes and motorcycles.

I love driving manually too, but after getting comfortable with the machine, I drive more in NOA and AS. I understand you don't use AP. But it's a subtle continuum from fully manual to more automated. Tesla offers some defensive automation even in non-AP modes/cars.

In the near future, IMHO, more and more cars will have more automation to anticipate danger and take load off the driver. Some may become mandatory. Hardly anyone questions cruise control, seat belts or anti-lock brakes any more. Many new gasoline cars have lane-keeping with defensive corrections.

In this case the system evidently considered the oncoming 2 lanes with 2 trucks as presenting more potential risk than moving a bit to the right. Some people wouldn't, but frankly, manually I would do the same, just in case, maybe more gradually. I'd guess that you were just not expecting it, you got alarmed, it wasn't as smooth as a human might do it, and probably the displayed message was over-dramatic. But in retrospect, was it really a bad decision? Was there any indication it was going to take you off the road?

I wouldn't go out of my way to want to defeat it, though some people will. There are different takes on how much a car "is allowed" to do to defend you. Personally, I would only suggest knowing it's there, seriously testing and learning when it might be activated, keeping control of the wheel, and overriding any (rare) corrections that you don't agree with. No big deal. Because in some situations it may truly save your ass.

 

[alstoralset]

ChrisH, here's a video of the incident. I'm pat. pend. on making the side videos look like car mirrors.

Fernand, thanks for the thought provoking reply!

Yes, the car keeps getting better at distinguishing its surroundings. And as of 2019.12.2 the screen more clearly displays pedestrians, bikes and motorcycles.

Good point. I think I've noticed that too lately, watching the display at crosswalks.

I'd guess that you were just not expecting it, you got alarmed, it wasn't as smooth as a human might do it, and probably the displayed message was over-dramatic. But in retrospect, was it really a bad decision? Was there any indication it was going to take you off the road?

The "klaxon" alert is indeed startling. I'm starting to get used to it after 5+ triggers, but it still doesn't arouse feelings of bliss.

In terms of it being a bad decision, there was no harm done in this case, though its actions were unnecessary. My biggest concern is whether it would have done the same thing if a bike was next to me in the bike lane, etc.

Hardly anyone questions cruise control, seat belts or anti-lock brakes any more. Many new gasoline cars have lane-keeping with defensive corrections.

Agreed, but I don't think those features are peers of uncommanded, unanticipated steering takeover? Lane keeping indeed controls steering, but only if I invoke it, and am therefore expecting it to steer.

Additionally, the car has repeatedly detected safe situations as imminent collisions. An imperfect analogy would be if the airbags were triggering without an impact?

I would only suggest knowing it's there, seriously testing and learning when it might be activated, keeping control of the wheel, and overriding any (rare) corrections that you don't agree with.

They say the safest driver is the one with nitroglycerin strapped to his front bumper, so maybe it's beneficial in at least that respect. Almost entirely kidding.

 

[Fernand]

Maybe that nitro is what the window breaker thieves need ;-)

After months of using EAP, I trust my car a lot with being aware
of surroundings in lanes changes. Not that I don't double check
mirrors etc, but the system has done very well. That's a huge
help to me, FWIW, because I get very nervous over blind spots
when changing lanes, and being able to engage the blinkers
and let the car pick time/place to actually do the operation is
a huge benefit with my nerves. That situation of yours is a bit
like a lane change, it requires similar awareness, so I wouldn't
personally be very worried about "what if there was a bike there",
because I've watched it, and it knows hitting those is a no-no ;-)

Of course it only takes one mistake to .... And if you don't have
AP, we don't know how much of the programming (that I've learned
to rely on) is active on your car. I can appreciate your concern.

I'm pretty sure that nobody here knows. I think you might
contact Tesla and ask them that very question, namely:
since my car doesn't have the AP feature, just how fully
aware of its surroundings is it when it moves out of its lane into
e.g. a bike lane in this scenario? How can I be sure? And if
I'm not confident, shouldn't I be able to disable this behavior?

Looking at your video now, if I were driving, I mean manually,
and I saw those trucks coming, with that one so close to the
line, in fact at 0:04 it seems to be right on the line, I would
move over a bit too. Some people might be confident the
trucker isn't starting to drift over, I'd rather be defensive. The
system obviously doesn't have more temperate messages like
"big barreling truck proximity avoided", it can only tell you
"possible crash averted".

I'd use the BUG REPORT voice command. Tesla staff told
me it goes to the developers, and also phone them to ask.
I'm curious what they will tell you.

 

[alstoralset]

Thanks Fernand!

Maybe that nitro is what the window breaker thieves need ;-)

LOL!

After months of using EAP, I trust my car a lot with being aware
of surroundings in lanes changes. Not that I don't double check
mirrors etc, but the system has done very well.

That's good to hear. I'm afraid my take on EAP is a bit locked in amber, as I did the 30 day trial back in December, with mixed results. Sounds like it's really evolved since then. Maybe Elon will offer an "atonement trial" when EAP offers FSD.

Looking at your video now, if I were driving, I mean manually,
and I saw those trucks coming, with that one so close to the
line, in fact at 0:04 it seems to be right on the line, I would
move over a bit too.

Same here. I generally try to position the car in the area of least danger. Looks like I was hugging the right lane marker before the M3 took over and pushed it out of the lane. That was one of my biggest concerns with the EAP trial - it seemed to err on the side of most danger, by driving uncomfortably close to adjacent cars. But I digress, and it's probably much better now.

The
system obviously doesn't have more temperate messages like
"big barreling truck proximity avoided", it can only tell you
"possible crash averted".

Yes, in fact I was ok with the prior "klaxon" behavior, with no intervention, in situations like this. I'd rather have the false alarm than an accident. It seems like a recent firmware update must have added the intervention, but no way to know with all the variables.

I'd use the BUG REPORT voice command. Tesla staff told
me it goes to the developers, and also phone them to ask.
I'm curious what they will tell you.

I did do the BUG REPORT right after the incident, but will also call Tesla and see if I can learn anything more about what happened.