T34ME
Active Member
To many millennials, anyone over 30 is a senior, retired or not!
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What in the hell does this have to do with being a senior? Both of my parents in their 80s have iPhones. I don't see the point of a flip phone, since I almost never get phone calls. I don't really see what being retired has to do with it either, since I almost never use my phone for anything work related.
RayK
Active Member
Having rented a 3 last week for three days, here's my limited experience... As I was not the owner, I had to use the card key to enter/exit the car. First, I had to remember to dig it out of my wallet. If I was carrying something (like my computer case I take to work everyday), then it had to be put down in order to extract my wallet out of my back pocket. Then I had to wave the card around the B pillar at just the right spot. Most of the time it took 3 to 4 attempts to find the right spot and/or technique. Card had to stay out since I typically open the back door and put my computer case inside, then get in the front seat. By that time, I had to place the card behind the cupholder in order to validate myself. A couple of times I forgot to move the card into the cupholder or put it back in my wallet. A turn or two later and the card ended up in the passenger seat; luckily avoiding the card slipping down between the seat and center console.
Now, things may have been easier if I was the owner and had my Samsung Galaxy J3 smartphone on me.... oh. Hmmm... It looks like maybe my phone is not supported. I guess I'll figure this out when my car is delivered or I'll ask Tesla if my phone is capable. If it's not, I'm really not looking forward to change out my phone when there are other technologies readily available.
I bought a used 2011 Nissan Murano last year. If you walk up to the car, it detects the key fob (in my pocket) and allows you to unlock the door by pressing a button on the door handle. It will also let you start the vehicle without having to put it in a special spot.
A vote for the option of having a simple Tesla key fob that automatically unlocks the car when you're next to it and then locks the car when you leave it (without anybody in the car and the 'transmission' in Park).
Now, things may have been easier if I was the owner and had my Samsung Galaxy J3 smartphone on me.... oh. Hmmm... It looks like maybe my phone is not supported. I guess I'll figure this out when my car is delivered or I'll ask Tesla if my phone is capable. If it's not, I'm really not looking forward to change out my phone when there are other technologies readily available.
I bought a used 2011 Nissan Murano last year. If you walk up to the car, it detects the key fob (in my pocket) and allows you to unlock the door by pressing a button on the door handle. It will also let you start the vehicle without having to put it in a special spot.
A vote for the option of having a simple Tesla key fob that automatically unlocks the car when you're next to it and then locks the car when you leave it (without anybody in the car and the 'transmission' in Park).
Dave Garaffa
Member
just my .02 but the keyfob is akin to a mid 90s computer with a floppy drive - we all knew they were all but useless and yet didn't dare think of owning a computer without one - then Steve Jobs came back to Apple and came out with the iMac and its one glaring missing feature was the floppy disc! Many thought it was a huge screw up but he was right - the floppy drive WAS clearly dead but nobody bothered to hold a funeral until the iMac.
The success of the iMac and the lack of a floppy ACCELERATED the adoption of RW-CD technology and while the first year without a floppy might have been mildly annoying it wasn't long before nobody was looking back and where in the beginning 'burning cds' wasn't the easiest thing to do but it forced the OS to play catch up to the point where it was simply drag a files to a cd icon and when you ejected the os would ask you if you were read to burn.
Had Apple not killed the floppy it would have likely taken far more time before burning CDs would become so elegantly incorporated into the OS.
A little pain now (the loss of a keyfob) will be a positive in the future.
edit - yes I do realise this isn't perfect analogy since iMacs could ADD a floppy external floppy drive via USB if they really needed one but given Apple was the first major company to adopt USB across its entire lineup USB devices were still quite hard to get and were quite a bit more expensive then they are today.
The success of the iMac and the lack of a floppy ACCELERATED the adoption of RW-CD technology and while the first year without a floppy might have been mildly annoying it wasn't long before nobody was looking back and where in the beginning 'burning cds' wasn't the easiest thing to do but it forced the OS to play catch up to the point where it was simply drag a files to a cd icon and when you ejected the os would ask you if you were read to burn.
Had Apple not killed the floppy it would have likely taken far more time before burning CDs would become so elegantly incorporated into the OS.
A little pain now (the loss of a keyfob) will be a positive in the future.
edit - yes I do realise this isn't perfect analogy since iMacs could ADD a floppy external floppy drive via USB if they really needed one but given Apple was the first major company to adopt USB across its entire lineup USB devices were still quite hard to get and were quite a bit more expensive then they are today.
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T34ME
Active Member
We are in agreement, it has nothing to do with it. My response was to the query, "Who doesn't carry a smartphone?" Those who might not carry a smartphone include, but are not limited to, who are seniors, retired, limited by finances, limited by reception, etc. And if you don't carry a flip phone because you "almost never get phone calls," then why do you carry a smartphone for telecommunications? I worked for too many years tied to a telephone of one type or another for daily sales, coordination, and problem solving. At this point in my retired life, I am enjoying some peace and quiet without being tied to a phone.
The point is there are a significant number of people who might purchase a 3 who will not have or want a smartphone. The key card is an emergency backup and was never designed to be the primary means for access. Smartphone access has proven to be unreliable. Tesla should re-think their access strategy to provide additional means of access for those who don't conform to a particular norm.
I carry a smart phone to do things like look up where stuff is, check menus at restaurants, get reminders about appointments, take pictures, look up random information, listen to music or audio books, have a list of things I need to do and now to unlock my car. Oh and also to receive texts from my wife ;-) A smart phone is more of a mini computer than a phone. Actually you should be able to unlock the S without it actually being a phone at all. An iPod touch should work.
But I agree that people shouldn't have to have a smartphone.
iwannam3
Active Member
Is the passive RFID technology of the card compatible with battery powered fob tech? Could a fob emulate a passive card?
No, the card is a totally different tech than a fob. The phone and a fob use basically the same tech.
T34ME
Active Member
T34ME
Active Member
RayK
Active Member
No, I believe that the card key uses RFID. It's a passive, non-powered system; from the standpoint of the card that is. Inside the B pillar is an antenna which emits a radio frequency (RF) signal. The card contains a chip that converts that tiny RF energy into enough electrical current that allows the chip to send a signal back to the antenna, verifying that it is the appropriate card to open the car. With RFID, you essentially need to have physical contact with each other.
Bluetooth is a similar system that uses RF signals but the key fob/smartphone has its own radio receiver, transmitter and power, thus allowing greater distance between the two objects. My understanding is that Tesla uses Bluetooth LE (low energy) for access to the 3. In looking through the specs for my Samsung Galaxy J3 phone it does not appear to support that standard. Which could mean that I will have to change phones (!) .
What? No, I said that the keycard and phone use different technologies. Did you mean to ask whether the Tesla fob uses bluetooth to communicate with the car? In which case the answer is yes.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
This kind of stood out to me. As someone that uses NFC cards everyday, they should not be waved. They should be held stationary in front of the sensor to allow it to read. I see people that like to wave their card and it fails most of the time and it almost always takes multiple tries. I always can get it to read with one try (only exception is if I move the card before it reads).
The area of the antenna of the card is big enough that the card does not have to be perfectly aligned to read. Waving actually makes things worse because you don't give enough time for the sensor to read the card before killing the signal by moving the card, even though the user seems to assume that by waving the card they might get one position that is perfectly aligned.
From the manual it takes 1-2 seconds for the sensor to read the card. If the card is moved before then, it may never get the chance to finish reading. The location of sensor is right under the camera.
Tesla Model 3: how the keyless and phone entry works and user manual
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RayK
Active Member
Hmm.. maybe that explains it. I also use an NFC/RFID card at work to enter various areas. There I hold the card stationary against the readers. I waved the Telsa key card because I was told (or read somewhere?) that I had to swipe the card below the camera. Next time I get a chance I'll simply tap the card and see if that is more reliable. In any event, having to open up the car this way seems to be a step backward when considering that existing key fob technology can already identify me when I approach the car and authorize my usage. The only drawbacks that I can see with fobs is I have to replace the CR2016 or CR2032 battery(ies) every several years and it makes my keychain a little bit bigger.
Glamisduner
Active Member
iwannam3
Active Member
Is there a list of phones that work or don't work? Is Bluetooth LE different from Bluetooth? My phone spec is
Bluetooth: 4.0, EDR also NFC & tethering
Bluetooth: 4.0, EDR also NFC & tethering
4.0 is the first version of Bluetooth to support Bluetooth Low Energy (aka Bluetooth LE or BLE), but I am not sure if merely having 4.0 guarantees BLE support, or if it's optional. If your device doesn't support at least Bluetooth 4.0, you can be fairly certain it won't work as a smart key. If it supports 4.0 or above, it might, but it might not - depending on whether it supports BLE itself, and then OS/driver support on top of that (but I suspect that generally if it has hardware support it will have OS support).
As for whether the Tesla fobs are BLE - I believe only the X one is, or at least the S didn't use to be. I'm not sure if the S ever changed from (whatever it was before, but not BLE) to BLE, but as I understand it X has always used a BLE fob. So in theory, they already have the knowledge and supply chain, just need a new shell (though honestly if I could link an X keyfob to the 3, I wouldn't care what it looks like). If they do bring fobs to the 3 I imagine they'll not be fancy shaped-like-car keyfobs, but just regular boring keyfobs. Which is totally fine by me.
As for whether the Tesla fobs are BLE - I believe only the X one is, or at least the S didn't use to be. I'm not sure if the S ever changed from (whatever it was before, but not BLE) to BLE, but as I understand it X has always used a BLE fob. So in theory, they already have the knowledge and supply chain, just need a new shell (though honestly if I could link an X keyfob to the 3, I wouldn't care what it looks like). If they do bring fobs to the 3 I imagine they'll not be fancy shaped-like-car keyfobs, but just regular boring keyfobs. Which is totally fine by me.
RayK
Active Member
I downloaded an app called BLE Checker for my Samsung Galaxy J3 phone. According to it, BLE is supported. We'll see when I get my car.
“Where we’re going, we don’t need [keys]...”
Im actually really hoping it works reliably. My plan is to get rid of my keys entirely and just use my phone for car access (wallet for backup). Then, I can use my car to open the garage making keys redundant (phone also controls garage for a backup).
Msjulie
Active Member
FWIW I have the backup card in my wallet and holding the wallet to the B pillar works - was testing to see if the other credit cards in there would be blocking anything
I find an uncanny where-are-my-keys feeling when I go to the car but I'm working on getting over it; the bigger issue I have may be the car or the network. After an overnight or prolonged power down, sometimes the phone app can't connect with the car. While this hasn't stopped me from unlocking the car when standing next to it, getting status or pre-heating etc aren't available. This happened this AM; everything has fine network, it's as if the car went into a deeper sleep. Maybe it's intended, but it's disconcerting a bit.
I find an uncanny where-are-my-keys feeling when I go to the car but I'm working on getting over it; the bigger issue I have may be the car or the network. After an overnight or prolonged power down, sometimes the phone app can't connect with the car. While this hasn't stopped me from unlocking the car when standing next to it, getting status or pre-heating etc aren't available. This happened this AM; everything has fine network, it's as if the car went into a deeper sleep. Maybe it's intended, but it's disconcerting a bit.
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