Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[Lolo780]

TSLA shorts going to buy me a new car.

A May release in North America would be just right. Hopefully not a POS.

Edit: All out on the flush under 174.

 

[phantasms]

I had hoped that this tangent would die with my last post redirecting to the new car, but yes. This is the thing I have an issue with, and I’m amazed that so many people seem to disagree. It’s as if people really have never driven cars that are actually fast before their Model 3. Maybe that’s the issue? I’ve driven and ridden in a lot of incredible cars that most people don’t get to try out.

The acceleration in the Highland LR felt faster than my 3P but we all know it’s not. The way a car feels does matter, and it’s ok to have an opinion, people.

This car accelerates to 40mph like a supercar, when that acceleration doesn’t continue, it’s rather normal to feel as if it “fell on its face”. *sugar*, that C6 I mentioned accelerates like a bat out of hell all the way to 170mph (probably higher, I never tried. It gets to 170 REALLY quickly) and would lose to a 3P on a drag strip more often than not, but it would be ridiculous to claim that the Tesla is the faster car.

I got you my friend. I used to test drive cars. I drove everything. I know how a McLaren F1 pulls at 160. also owned a c5Z, C6Z, and C7Z Z07.

I think a lot of people here are coming from a Prius.

 

[T3SLAROD]

I got you my friend. I used to test drive cars. I drove everything. I know how a McLaren F1 pulls at 160. also owned a c5Z, C6Z, and C7Z Z07.

I think a lot of people here are coming from a Prius.

I was just about to post the Prius comment. There are a lot of people that claim it’s the fastest best car they’ve ever driven. A lot.

The fall flat on its face though can be attributed to every EV except a handful.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I had hoped that this tangent would die with my last post redirecting to the new car, but yes. This is the thing I have an issue with, and I’m amazed that so many people seem to disagree. It’s as if people really have never driven cars that are actually fast before their Model 3. Maybe that’s the issue? I’ve driven and ridden in a lot of incredible cars that most people don’t get to try out.

The acceleration in the Highland LR felt faster than my 3P but we all know it’s not. The way a car feels does matter, and it’s ok to have an opinion, people.

This car accelerates to 40mph like a supercar, when that acceleration doesn’t continue, it’s rather normal to feel as if it “fell on its face”. *sugar*, that C6 I mentioned accelerates like a bat out of hell all the way to 170mph (probably higher, I never tried. It gets to 170 REALLY quickly) and would lose to a 3P on a drag strip more often than not, but it would be ridiculous to claim that the Tesla is the faster car.

Let me turn the question back to you. You asserted that we haven't experienced other cars that are fast. Is it possible that you haven't fully experienced the Model 3 Performance? The 60-130 mph times for the Model 3 Performance vary so much depending on how optimized the battery is. I have seen as much as 80 HP difference even at higher SOCs.

Is it possible that you experienced a Model 3 Performance at less than its potential so it feels dramatically slower to you than the other cars? Have you done a low 11 second 60-130 mph in a Model 3 Performance? It doesn't feel fast but it certainly doesn't seem slow to me either.

One thing I really hope they fix with the Ludicrous Model 3 is the need to optimize the battery before it can perform to the levels we expect. I hope they shorten the time it takes and reduce it to a single button click for all optimization settings.

 

[Sellout]

I was just about to post the Prius comment. There are a lot of people that claim it’s the fastest best car they’ve ever driven. A lot.

The fall flat on its face though can be attributed to every EV except a handful.

That’s true. They’re coming around though, the new S and the Air are awesome in this regard, but they’re big. And expensive.

EV’s will only get better from here. I can’t wait until they’re actually compelling to drive.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

That’s true. They’re coming around though, the new S and the Air are awesome in this regard, but they’re big. And expensive.

EV’s will only get better from here. I can’t wait until they’re actually compelling to drive.

There are several EVs resorting to adding a second gear presumably to combat HP fall off at speed. That certainly is one way to achieve much faster top end acceleration. It isn't particularly efficient though.

Can I ask everyone how often they use top end acceleration? Not 60-100 mph. I mean 100+ mph acceleration. Is that something you utilize on a daily basis or is this like a once a month kind of thing?

 

[buckets0fun]

It’s as if people really have never driven cars that are actually fast before their Model 3. Maybe that’s the issue?

Correct. For most the model 3 is the first car they felt the ‘connection’ to a ‘fun fast car’ and a ‘community’.
Same can be seen on rivian forums with the “zomg I’m so happy that it can always get better from OTA updates!11” like it’s a magical thing attached only to a rivian.

 

[n2mb_racing]

There are several EVs resorting to adding a second gear presumably to combat HP fall off at speed. That certainly is one way to achieve much faster top end acceleration. It isn't particularly efficient though.

Can I ask everyone how often they use top end acceleration? Not 60-100 mph. I mean 100+ mph acceleration. Is that something you utilize on a daily basis or is this like a once a month kind of thing?

Yeah, I kind of wish they had geared the Plaid down more to improve low end acceleration. The previous Model S performance actually beats it to 30 mph. I don't need to go 216+ mph.

I think the need for a second gear (like the Taycan) is officially dead. Whatever they did in the Plaid motors to reduce back EMF and produce that power curve shows there is no reason for a second gear. They could have even geared it down a bit more to achieve some more low-end torque and lower the top speed a hair, although it might be traction limited already. Still, unclear why the older Model S was able to accelerate faster to 30. Especially with the wider tires on the Plaid now, you'd think it would have more traction.

Edit: I may not have great data for the older generation being faster to 30 mph. Dragtimes shows the Plaid dominates the 60ft time as well:

Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

Fast Tesla Model-S 1/4 Mile Drag Racing Times and Timeslips

www.dragtimes.com

Mainly just this graph showing greater torque below ~37 mph for the 2019 Performance:

 

[Sellout]

Let me turn the question back to you. You asserted that we haven't experienced other cars that are fast. Is it possible that you haven't fully experienced the Model 3 Performance? The 60-130 mph times for the Model 3 Performance vary so much depending on how optimized the battery is. I have seen as much as 80 HP difference even at higher SOCs.

Is it possible that you experienced a Model 3 Performance at less than its potential so it feels dramatically slower to you than the other cars? Have you done a low 11 second 60-130 mph in a Model 3 Performance? It doesn't feel fast but it certainly doesn't seem slow to me either.

One thing I really hope they fix with the Ludicrous Model 3 is the need to optimize the battery before it can perform to the levels we expect. I hope they shorten the time it takes and reduce it to a single button click for all optimization settings.

I have almost 60k miles on mine, I’ve NOT done all of that stuff because I’m talking about how the car feels every day to drive. Sure you can preheat the battery navigating to a supercharger and drive it like that all the time if you want to, but it’s still never going to feel fast up top the way a C6Z does, and you can still feel that you’ve lost half your acceleration before 60.

I am also not saying it’s a slow car, it’s clearly not slow. It is DEFINITELY slower than a 500hp C6 with a manual transmission in the 60-130 range, by like 3 seconds. Imagine how much faster that C6 would feel if it had the C8’s DCT, which is optimized for acceleration in order to make the numbers on that pig impress people.

There are several EVs resorting to adding a second gear presumably to combat HP fall off at speed. That certainly is one way to achieve much faster top end acceleration. It isn't particularly efficient though.

Can I ask everyone how often they use top end acceleration? Not 60-100 mph. I mean 100+ mph acceleration. Is that something you utilize on a daily basis or is this like a once a month kind of thing?

More gears may or may not be the right call, I’ve not driven a Taycan yet but I really want to try one. I’m honestly more interested in the way it’s solved S and Air, TBH.

I almost never use acceleration above 100mph, but on EVERY highway on-ramp I’m left wishing the car was able to carry power better. Unfortunately this car is a bit of a 1-trick pony to me, with regard to performance, and that trick isn’t really all that interesting anymore.

I honestly want to be able to dial back the sport accelerator mapping to feel more like a LR, and think it’s utter BS that we can’t get them to give us a middle-ground setting in the performance cars.

Yeah, I kind of wish they had geared the Plaid down more to improve low end acceleration. The previous Model S performance actually beats it to 30 mph. I don't need to go 216+ mph.

I think the need for a second gear (like the Taycan) is officially dead. Whatever they did in the Plaid motors to reduce back EMF and produce that power curve shows there is no reason for a second gear. They could have even geared it down a bit more to achieve some more low-end torque and lower the top speed a hair, although it might be traction limited already. Still, unclear why the older Model S was able to accelerate faster to 30. Especially with the wider tires on the Plaid now, you'd think it would have more traction.

Edit: I may not have great data for the older generation being faster to 30 mph. Dragtimes shows the Plaid dominates the 60ft time as well:

Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

Fast Tesla Model-S 1/4 Mile Drag Racing Times and Timeslips

www.dragtimes.com

Mainly just this graph showing greater torque below ~37 mph for the 2019 Performance:
View attachment 1025160

That looks quite close though. How much of a difference are we really talking about there?

 

[Lets go Plaid]

From the article on the previous page.

‘While suspension and new motor adaptability pose current challenges, the Ludicrous trim will shake the entire EV industry.’

Can we expect more then 2.9sec 0 to 60 and high 10’s or this just more hype.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

From the article on the previous page.

‘While suspension and new motor adaptability pose current challenges, the Ludicrous trim will shake the entire EV industry.’

Can we expect more then 2.9sec 0 to 60 and high 10’s or this just more hype.

They could get it down to 2.5 seconds(With rollout subtracted) 0-60 mph and mid 10s for 1/4 mile. However, the issue would be if they could still sell it under $55k if they did that.

 

[Lolo780]

From the article on the previous page.

‘While suspension and new motor adaptability pose current challenges, the Ludicrous trim will shake the entire EV industry.’

Can we expect more then 2.9sec 0 to 60 and high 10’s or this just more hype.

I think hype. With no change to the battery there can't be any more peak power at non optimal temps. They can certainly fill in the empty spots on the curve, but the real problem with the 3P is the pathetic power at say 50% SOC and 10c battery temp.

If I preheat while plugged in, the heater cuts off around 10c which is completely idiotic. The only way to get heat is by putting a sack on the driver's seat leaving the car on.

 

[Sweed269]

I think hype. With no change to the battery there can't be any more peak power at non optimal temps. They can certainly fill in the empty spots on the curve, but the real problem with the 3P is the pathetic power at say 50% SOC and 10c battery temp.

If I preheat while plugged in, the heater cuts off around 10c which is completely idiotic. The only way to get heat is by putting a sack on the driver's seat leaving the car on.

LOL 400hp is pathetic.

 

[Unclepaul]

For most, their Tesla is fast enough. For the few, nothing will be fast enough.

Even more important to most drivers, is not the absolute acceleration, but the instant throttle response that allows them precision calibration of torque in everyday driving.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Mainly just this graph showing greater torque below ~37 mph for the 2019 Performance:
View attachment 1025160

I don’t think the older cars were quicker than the Plaids in any metric. They were plenty quick but I couldn’t find any indication that they were quicker than a Plaid.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

What if they improve the launch and extract the extra 20-40 HP out of the current battery but they don't improve top end acceleration significantly over what is possible with a lightweight Model 3 now? What if it does 0-60 mph in 2.8 seconds but does the 1/4 mile in 11.1 seconds. Would that be worth trading your current car for?

 

[Lolo780]

What if they improve the launch and extract the extra 20-40 HP out of the current battery but they don't improve top end acceleration significantly over what is possible with a lightweight Model 3 now? What if it does 0-60 mph in 2.8 seconds but does the 1/4 mile in 11.1 seconds. Would that be worth trading your current car for?

I'd say not enough difference for me since I have a 2022. I'm looking at building an on demand voltage booster for the older cars to see what's possible.

 

[canasion35]

LOL 400hp is pathetic.

No offense but for people coming from 600, 800, 900hp cars, “400”hp is kinda pathetic…especially as the acceleration falls on it’s face past 45 mph.

 

[BigNick]

There are several EVs resorting to adding a second gear presumably to combat HP fall off at speed. That certainly is one way to achieve much faster top end acceleration. It isn't particularly efficient though.

Can I ask everyone how often they use top end acceleration? Not 60-100 mph. I mean 100+ mph acceleration. Is that something you utilize on a daily basis or is this like a once a month kind of thing?

For forum members in Germany, I would guess they'd be the most frequent users of 100+ MPH/160+ km/hr acceleration.

 

[canasion35]

No way

What if they improve the launch and extract the extra 20-40 HP out of the current battery but they don't improve top end acceleration significantly over what is possible with a lightweight Model 3 now? What if it does 0-60 mph in 2.8 seconds but does the 1/4 mile in 11.1 seconds. Would that be worth trading your current car for?

No way is it worth trading current car for…the top end pull is what would do it for me.