Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs. Crossclimate +

[mechrock]

Just picked up a used set of Model 3 Winter Tires. They only had 11k miles on them so I should be able to get 2 or 3 seasons out of them.

I think I already know my answer, but wanted to see what everyone else had to say.
I live in Western NC (Asheville), we get a few snows a year, but nothing too bad. I'm thinking of getting PS4S tires to replace my Stock MXM4 18" or do I get CC+ now and replace the Winter tires in time with PS4S and use CC+ as the new Winter tire?

Seems as though based on this test, the CC+ would work well enough in Winter and still have great dry performance.

Anyone with real world experience with the two tires?

 

[TonyJag]

Sorry no one replied yet. In another thread about Martian MW03 wheels, we are discussing pros and cons of various tires vs the stock MXM4. You might find useful information there.
Martian Wheels MW03

 

[mechrock]

Sorry no one replied yet. In another thread about Martian MW03 wheels, we are discussing pros and cons of various tires vs the stock MXM4. You might find useful information there.
Martian Wheels MW03

Thank you! I'm leaning towards the PS4S, but still trying to decide.

 

[Zcd1]

Just picked up a used set of Model 3 Winter Tires. They only had 11k miles on them so I should be able to get 2 or 3 seasons out of them.

I think I already know my answer, but wanted to see what everyone else had to say.
I live in Western NC (Asheville), we get a few snows a year, but nothing too bad. I'm thinking of getting PS4S tires to replace my Stock MXM4 18" or do I get CC+ now and replace the Winter tires in time with PS4S and use CC+ as the new Winter tire?

Seems as though based on this test, the CC+ would work well enough in Winter and still have great dry performance.

Anyone with real world experience with the two tires?

Depends on how much value you place on ultimate tire performance 3 seasons of the year...

The PS4S is hands down the best UHP tire on the market right now, though if you get 18s you won’t get the “Tesla specific” wider tire with the acoustic foam...

I’m sure the CCs would handle your winter conditions without problem.

So what’s important to you now?

 

[mechrock]

Depends on how much value you place on ultimate tire performance 3 seasons of the year...

The PS4S is hands down the best UHP tire on the market right now, though if you get 18s you won’t get the “Tesla specific” wider tire with the acoustic foam...

I’m sure the CCs would handle your winter conditions without problem.

So what’s important to you now?

My problem is the MXM4 has been the best tire I've ever had on a car and I know that's not saying much. People rave about the performance of the PS4S tire, I'm just trying to understand how much better it can be. It took me going 50 mph around hairpin turns the other day just to get the current tires to squeal.

Since I have the set of Winter tires I'll probably fork over the money and get the PS4S, but I guess it's hard for me to understand because objective wet and dry braking improvement how they are significantly better in day to day driving.

 

[Zcd1]

My problem is the MXM4 has been the best tire I've ever had on a car and I know that's not saying much. People rave about the performance of the PS4S tire, I'm just trying to understand how much better it can be. It took me going 50 mph around hairpin turns the other day just to get the current tires to squeal.

Since I have the set of Winter tires I'll probably fork over the money and get the PS4S, but I guess it's hard for me to understand because objective wet and dry braking improvement how they are significantly better in day to day driving.

If you don’t push them, you might not feel the difference in capability.

You should feel the difference in steering response though, because they’re designed for performance driving, and not just as an all around/all season tire

 

[dsgerbc]

СС+ will be pretty similar to those Pirellis during mild winter, not much sense to have both. Do you drive aggressively/spiritedly? If not, PS4S are a waste of money and energy. CC+ are a lot more energy efficient than PS4S (but will still lose a bit of range compared to OEM MXM4).

 

[thor_2019]

PS4S tires are well worth the money if you enjoy driving.... It's disappointing every fall when I have to take them off.

 

[mechrock]

Do you drive aggressively/spiritedly?

I do when I go up to the Blueridge parkway and a few roads around town.

276

• mechrock
• Jul 26, 2020

I'm very fortunate to live in Western NC and regularly drive up 276 in the morning when there are no cars or cyclist in my way. I haven't had the opportunity, but there are many well known driving roads around here such as the Tail of the Dragon close by.

I'm somewhat scared to think how fast I'd be able to go with PS4S tires around these curves. The speed limit is 35, but the car shows 50. Let's just say I like taking the car's suggestion. I can get the MXM4 Tires squealing pretty good around a few of those curves.

 

[mechrock]

СС+ will be pretty similar to those Pirellis during mild winter, not much sense to have both. CC+ are a lot more energy efficient than PS4S (but will still lose a bit of range compared to OEM MXM4).

I'm curious about this as well. I do enjoy my efficiency, but mostly only matters for long trips. Perhaps what I could do is replace the snow tires in time with the Cross Climates and get the best of both worlds. I wish I could find more Cross Climate vs. Dedicated snow tires. The few reviews I can find are very promising for good Winter performance with the Cross Climate.

 

[Zcd1]

Here’s an unsolicited expert opinion piece regarding the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S:

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I couldn’t agree more - they are remarkable tires!

 

[mechrock]

Here’s an unsolicited expert opinion piece regarding the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S:

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I couldn’t agree more - they are remarkable tires!

The more and more I hear these glowing reviews the more likely I am to get them. What ever I get, I'll plan to document it here for other novice tire buyers.

 

[SK360]

I ran my 620rwhp manual C7 corvette on PS4S since they were released (I had a preorder in for 4 months at TireRack). Test drove a 3 Performance on PS4S and then took an overnight test drive in a Stealth Performance on MXM4's. I almost put that car into the woods on the way home. As has been said, PS4S's are the best all around summer tire out there and I won't run anything else (on the street).

 

[TonyJag]

I like my stock PS4S too, but it's Summer now here in New England. You won't find it in your owner's manual, Tesla marketing info, or on the tires themselves, but look at this note from Tire Rack:
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
from: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot Sport 4S&partnum=335YR0PS4SXLAC

This issue is also discussed in the following TMC thread:
Where to store summer tires?

And if you do drive them In the cold, you will find them quite tractionless, even helpless.

So if you live in the North, buying a Performance Model 3 with Performance Upgrade (PS4S TO 235/35 ZR20) implies a commitment to NOT drive on them in winter. That's the main reason I bought the Martian 18" x 8.5" MW3 wheels, now trying to decide on the best NON-SUMMER tires to put on them. The Crossclimate+ is high on that list, which I will post here when done. The biggest problem is finding rolling resistance data.

 

[mechrock]

The Crossclimate+ is high on that list, which I will post here when done. The biggest problem is finding rolling resistance data.

Same issue, there is one or 2 article on Tyrereviews.uk. What I've gathered is they suggest 5-10% worse efficiency compared to mxm4 AFTER the break in period. People see 10-15% during the break in. I'm hoping no more than 10% hit with the PS4S tires. Seems like it's 15%-20% when going from MXM4 Aero to 20" PS4S on Performance.

 

[mechrock]

For those interested, apparently Cross Climate + are being replaced with CrossClimate 2 Tires. Slightly updated tread design. First thoughts looks like it might improve wet and snow even more, but might remove a little dry performance.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=CrossClimate2

 

[Zoomit]

For those interested, apparently Cross Climate + are being replaced with CrossClimate 2 Tires. Slightly updated tread design. First thoughts looks like it might improve wet and snow even more, but might remove a little dry performance.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=CrossClimate2

Interesting, but not relevant until they offer a CC2 tire that’s XL load rated and fits the Model 3.

Bummer

 

[mechrock]

Interesting, but not relevant until they offer a CC2 tire that’s XL load rated and fits the Model 3.

Bummer

Bummer indeed. I see they'll have more sizes coming out next year. Hopefully it ends up being an overall improvement.
If so I'll probably get those as my "Winter" tires and PS4S for Summer.

 

[TonyJag]

The initial sizes are mostly higher profile, with the closest match being 235/50R18 97V. We need 235/45R18 98 Y. I am tempted if there is enough clearance, but speedo/odo would read low.
(see: Michelin CrossClimate2 Enters Market With 25 Sizes)
Other sizes will be available in early 2021...mid winter. Bummer**2.

Anyone know how the CrossClimate2 compares with CrossClimate+ in rolling resistance? The original CrossClimate and CrossClimate+ have the same EU Label Fuel C Wet B Noise 69db.

 

[The_Observer]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone here tried the Pilot Sport All Season 4? Seems like an another promising tire.