Was the plug frequently inserted and removed? That could cause wear that worsens the contact to the plug blades.
Also, there could be one-off defects that you were unlucky to get.
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Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide
- Thread starter gilscales
- Start date
Also, there could be one-off defects that you were unlucky to get.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
"Cheap" ($10-15) receptacles are made to withstand non-continuous* loads from devices such as a range that are typically plugged in and left there for years before being unplugged.
"Expensive" ($50-150) receptacles are made to withstand continuous* loads from devices such as electric vehicle supply equipment and RVs that may be plugged and unplugged daily.
Note that some "expensive" receptacles aren't any better than "cheap" ones, so price is not always an indicator of quality or suitability. This example is priced the same as a Bryant 9450FR, but is made in China instead of the US and is of questionable (and almost certainly inferior) quality.
Also note that some receptacles state that they are for EV charging even though they are NOT. See this example.
Also note that some receptacles state that they are industrial quality even though they are NOT. See this example.
*A non-continuous load is one like a range or a dryer that is used only intermittently, say, a few times a day, and when it is used, it consumes its maximum rated power only under certain circumstances (e.g., all four burners of a range are on "hi" and the oven is on "broil" at 550°F). A continuous load is one that always draws its maximum rated power for long periods of time, such an EV charger.
There are many differences in receptacles such as the material of the body, the wire clamping mechanism, the tension of the contacts, the material they are made from, and whether they are one-sided, two-sided, full-width, half-width, bifurcated, etc. Two receptacles may appear similar externally, yet be very different internally.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The naming convention is the same, the number refers to the amount of insulated conductors. The difference is your second link is not a NM-B (Romex) but rather a SOOW cable, which does not include a separate uninsulated ground.
Some stores warn against this:
"On all Rubber Cord, unlike NM-B that has a bare ground, this DOES NOT have a bare ground. "
2/3 SOOW SOO SO Black Rubber Cord Outdoor Wire Cable Flexible Wire/Cable
2/3 Ga SOOW Wire Sold in 5 ft Increments | 2 GA AWG | 3 Conductors | 600V | Stranded | 90° C | Copper Conductor
wirewireelectricsupply.com
Unfortunately there is no specific cycle rating, but generally you want to avoid frequent unplugging and plugging. I personally plug/unplug weekly due to my usage patterns, but that is due to necessity. The main difference of the more expensive industrial outlets is they are much beefier, use a hex clamp for the wires, and the pins may be tighter. See the first posts in this thread for more details.Thanks, will review the faceplate options. Still trying to wrap around the diameter required for 9450FR vs the cheap ones
Also, does the 9450FR withstand frequent plug in/out? Say once a week? Or once a month? Just trying to get an understanding on the benefits of these expensive ones : )
It looks like RMP is behind the times. In order to qualify for their rebate, the "charger" must have a J1772 connector even though that standard is quickly dying here.Thank you for the response. I did consider the Wall connector option. We (Utah) do have a rebate for up to $200 for charger installation (from rocky mountain power). But it does not include any of the tesla chargers. Neither the wall connector nor the mobile connector (list link here). Unless I am not looking at the list correctly?
30% tax credit for charger expenses? Thats news to me. Is it this one? So, basically $475 for wall connector plus say $325 for installation, totaling to $800, I could get $240 in tax credit? Is this also available only for wall connector and not for mobile connector?
I encountered a similar roadblock through my electric company earlier this year. They didn't have Tesla's equipment on their list because they said it wasn't Energy Star-compliant. Then one day, the Tesla Wall Connector magically appeared on the list and I was able to get a $250 rebate.
Yes - that's the credit. You use form 8911 to claim it.
I paid $425 for a Wall Connector (before the most recent price increase) then got a $250 rebate and will get a 30% tax credit of $127.50, so my final cost is $47.50 (not including installation since I installed it myself).
I believe to get the 30% credit from the IRS, the charging equipment is supposed to be hardwired.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Unplug your 14-50 adapter from the mobile connector body and clean the contactors on both ends. This is to make sure it's not a problem on adapter end. But if you already swapped the outlet and that solved your problem, perhaps that is not the cause.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Thanks again. Is an uninsulated ground NM-B 6/3 preferred over insulated ground SOOW 6/4? Or is it the other way? Or does it not matter much?The naming convention is the same, the number refers to the amount of insulated conductors. The difference is your second link is not a NM-B (Romex) but rather a SOOW cable, which does not include a separate uninsulated ground.
Some stores warn against this:
"On all Rubber Cord, unlike NM-B that has a bare ground, this DOES NOT have a bare ground. "
2/3 SOOW SOO SO Black Rubber Cord Outdoor Wire Cable Flexible Wire/Cable
2/3 Ga SOOW Wire Sold in 5 ft Increments | 2 GA AWG | 3 Conductors | 600V | Stranded | 90° C | Copper Conductor
Unfortunately there is no specific cycle rating, but generally you want to avoid frequent unplugging and plugging. I personally plug/unplug weekly due to my usage patterns, but that is due to necessity. The main difference of the more expensive industrial outlets is they are much beefier, use a hex clamp for the wires, and the pins may be tighter. See the first posts in this thread for more details.
Got it. I may not even plug/unplug weekly. Probably once a month or so on average.
Yeah, seems like Tesla decided to not partner with RMP. So I guess I get zero incentives/rebate from our state or the power company. I guess the 30% credit is kind of attractive.
Mobile Connector
$230 - Charger
$50 - NEMA 15-40 outlet
$45 - 6 feet 6/3 NM-B
$120 - 50 amp GFCI breaker
Wall Connector
$475 - Charger
$18 - 6 feet 6/2 wire (hope this is good)?
$16 - 60 amp breaker
Lets just add another $300 for installation and common materials (electrical box, conduit, etc)
For Wall connector, $809 total cost minus $243 IRS credit. So about $565
For Mobile connector, it will be $745. No credits from IRS.
Sounds like it might make sense to just install Wall connector and if absolutely necessary, just also buy an extra Mobile connector to keep it in the trunk I guess?
Does this comparison roughly look correct?
Looks like a reasonable analysis. I've said before that if I HAD to choose only ONE connector, I'd get the Mobile Connector since it can be used at home and away. Ideally, I'd have (and do have) both if for no other reason than to have a backup since there are no Superchargers in my area. I'd hate to have only one charging device and have it fail.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Read the description of the listings:
NM-B is designed for residential in wall use, as such is much more popular and available. SOOW is more for making temporary power cords for construction sites and has a thicker outer jacket to prevent oil/water/etc from entering.
Due to the differences in jacket design you can see from the specs while the NM-B 6/3 is rated for 55A peak (derate to 80% for continuous loads like EVSEs to end up with 44A max charging). The SOOW is only rated for 40A peak (32A continuous).
I would not use SOOW 6/4 for 14-50 and a 50A breaker, as it wouldn't be rated to handle it. Plus it doesn't say it's designed for in wall use.
I don't think this is true. The IRS credit is for charging equipment being installed, that does include wire and outlets and breakers.
So the $50 + $45 + $120 still qualify as charging equipment you got installed, which is eligible for the tax credit.
So the mobile connector ($230) by itself will not qualify too? Thats odd
And installation fee/labor wont qualify?
Pretty sure installation fee/labor does count. But I don’t think the mobile connector counts as it’s not permanently installed.
So any parts/labor to install the mobile connector should not qualify too? Since the base equipment itself deosn't count?
No. The outlet does count. It’s permanent.So any parts/labor to install the mobile connector should not qualify too? Since the base equipment itself deosn't count?
I received this troubleshooting alert on my Model Y:
The original receptacle my contractor installed was a Leviton. I could have just torqued the connections, but decided to replace with a Hubbell.
I ordered the new receptacle from Amazon, fully expecting I could get a new plate and deeper box locally. I checked online for local stores for the plate and box I wanted. Home Depot and Lowes did not have in stock, and commercial suppliers Grainger and Platt were overpriced since I'm not a contractor. I ordered from Zoro and they shipped very fast to me in the San Francisco East Bay. So, I was happy with their service.
Here Zoro links:
Hubbell HBL9450A
Raco Electrical Box Cover 888
Raco Electrical Box 257
The knockouts in the Raco box required a different connector, and here is Zoro link to one:
Raco Set Screw Connector, 3/4
I was hoping to justify purchase of a torque screwdriver but the brand I wanted was not rated for the 75 lb-in setting needed for the receptacle connections. So, I bought the KAIFNT K301 Square Drive Magnetic Bit Holder Socket Adapters, 3-Piece and used with my old 1/4" torque wrench.
Here is the old installation:
And here is the new installation:
Don't forget to open the breaker.
UMC_a017
Charge rate reduced - Wall plug temperature
high
Wall outlet and wiring inspection recommended
The original receptacle my contractor installed was a Leviton. I could have just torqued the connections, but decided to replace with a Hubbell.
I ordered the new receptacle from Amazon, fully expecting I could get a new plate and deeper box locally. I checked online for local stores for the plate and box I wanted. Home Depot and Lowes did not have in stock, and commercial suppliers Grainger and Platt were overpriced since I'm not a contractor. I ordered from Zoro and they shipped very fast to me in the San Francisco East Bay. So, I was happy with their service.
Here Zoro links:
Hubbell HBL9450A
Raco Electrical Box Cover 888
Raco Electrical Box 257
The knockouts in the Raco box required a different connector, and here is Zoro link to one:
Raco Set Screw Connector, 3/4
I was hoping to justify purchase of a torque screwdriver but the brand I wanted was not rated for the 75 lb-in setting needed for the receptacle connections. So, I bought the KAIFNT K301 Square Drive Magnetic Bit Holder Socket Adapters, 3-Piece and used with my old 1/4" torque wrench.
Here is the old installation:
And here is the new installation:
Don't forget to open the breaker.
I think the one you used zroger73 looks better too. The reason I used the Raco 888 is because the one you used seemed to be best for a recessed install, but mine was a surface install. I can't remember where, but I ran across the Raco 888 cover as being compatible with the HBL 9450A.
What I like about the 888 is that it adds some volume.
The gap between the opening and the receptacle doesn't bother me, but if I had designed the 888 I would have put two more screw holes in there so that two additional screws could be used for securing the cover. I suppose I could disassemble it and drill those holes.
What I like about the 888 is that it adds some volume.
The gap between the opening and the receptacle doesn't bother me, but if I had designed the 888 I would have put two more screw holes in there so that two additional screws could be used for securing the cover. I suppose I could disassemble it and drill those holes.
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