Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA)

[JRP3]

We haven't managed it in thousands of years, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[FANGO]

In case you didn't notice, governments are populated by self centered individuals acting in their own self interest, which is why most governments are a completely inefficient, corrupt, mess.

In fact I have not noticed that.

Governments only exist because people know it's in their best interest to have some checks and balances on the short sighted self serving behavior of individuals.

So in other words, they exist for cooperational purposes, and to put the benefit of society as a whole over the benefit over a single individual who would seek to do damage to others. Kind of the point which was being made...

If people were really interested in the common good governments would not be necessary.

You would then just call whatever guiding organizational structure under which cooperation happens "government."

- - - Updated - - -

We haven't managed it in thousands of years, I'm not holding my breath.

Right, we're not living in a golden age of cooperation, the least violence the human race has ever seen, the fastest advancement of technology, the best communication, etc...

I'm not holding my breath either. I'm breathing, because we're here. And it continues to get better.

 

[jhm]

We haven't managed it in thousands of years, I'm not holding my breath.

Apparently there was an evolutionary bottleneck that kinda held back the males of the species about 4000 to 8000 years ago. http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20150216195902.shtml

 

[JRP3]

Disagree on all points of course, but not really the place to discuss it further.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Perhaps it's time to return to talking about Tesla?

 

[jhm]

Interesting strategy peice on Silcon Valley "full stack start-ups."

Silicon Valley is seizing the customers | afr.com

Lump, this one is from tomorrow, March 26.

 

[Lump]

Interesting strategy peice on Silcon Valley "full stack start-ups."

Silicon Valley is seizing the customers | afr.com

Lump, this one is from tomorrow, March 26.

Convincing article, Hopefully I can load up on some LEAPS at the open before the stock rips higher.

 

[jhm]

Convincing article, Hopefully I can load up on some LEAPS at the open before the stock rips higher.

It's not about the stock ripping higher. It's about owning the customer relationship and thereby creating lasting value. This is something quite fundamental to Tesla. In the long run it won't matter how many Model S Tesla delivered in Q1 2015. What will matter is how devoted Tesla's customers are.

 

[StephenM]

http://etfdailynews.com/2015/03/25/...-cobalt-for-the-battery-revolution-come-from/

Any thoughts about the effects to LT fundamentals from spike of demand of raw materials for batteries (graphite, cobalt, lithium)?

 

[ggies07]

http://etfdailynews.com/2015/03/25/...-cobalt-for-the-battery-revolution-come-from/

Any thoughts about the effects to LT fundamentals from spike of demand of raw materials for batteries (graphite, cobalt, lithium)?

Interesting article, thanks! So Tesla is the safest player then because they use synthetic graphite and I thought Elon was talking all the way down the supply chain to the miners of the raw material, buying directly from them....

 

[StephenM]

Interesting article, thanks! So Tesla is the safest player then because they use synthetic graphite and I thought Elon was talking all the way down the supply chain to the miners of the raw material, buying directly from them....

I didn't know that Tesla was using synthetic graphite. That's good to know. Hopefully Elon has secured enough first rights to the other mining companies to ensure a smooth flow when the gigafactories are up and running.

 

[kenliles]

An interesting study regarding EV range anxiety showing the challenge of misperception and the long term inevitability
Electric vehicles will travel much further than drivers expect, study finds > Trends > Research | Click Green

 

[JRP3]

I have a bit of an issue with the study since it ignores real world conditions that can further reduce range. Take the LEAF type vehicle used in their example, EPA rated 84 miles x 80% = 67 miles x 60% bad weather = 40 miles. As this winter showed those conditions can last for months in much of the country. Add in a safety buffer and it's even less. That's just not enough range for most people to feel comfortable with, and it clearly shows why Tesla's minimum 200 mile range is a better target.

 

[kenliles]

I have a bit of an issue with the study since it ignores real world conditions that can further reduce range. Take the LEAF type vehicle used in their example, EPA rated 84 miles x 80% = 67 miles x 60% bad weather = 40 miles. As this winter showed those conditions can last for months in much of the country. Add in a safety buffer and it's even less. That's just not enough range for most people to feel comfortable with, and it clearly shows why Tesla's minimum 200 mile range is a better target.

yeah- agreed; I was thinking the same thing. It pretty much ignored those effects. I think Tesla has it right with 200+ after these effects are accounted. Still a good study in general that shows a continuing disconnect with much of the market. Good sign for market growth and acceptance going forward I think, as the comfort gap closes over time

 

[FANGO]

Conversely, the study shows exactly why the very people who ought to be helping EV acceptance are having a negative effect on it. The study shows that EVs are more suitable for most people than they think, that people are surprised by how well they would work in their life, and yet for some reason this information hasn't gotten out further. Why is that? It's either because established industry is trying to discourage the new technology, or because those of us who know better aren't doing a good enough job of telling the public about it. By saying things like "the leaf has less than 40 miles of range." Please.

 

[jhm]

How about Tesla embeds its range management software in a "Virtual EV". What the app would do is monitor your travel in vehicles and estimate how much energy and range you would have consumed if you were driving a Model S or some other EV. It would virtually recharge at home and when near Superchargers and other charging infrastructure. You would be able to do route planning with it. Ultimately, it would give you ample statistics on your own vehicle usage and range needs. Most people would find it is very hard to brorder their Virtual EV and become more comfortable buying an EV.

 

[The Blue Owl]

How about Tesla embeds its range management software in a "Virtual EV". What the app would do is monitor your travel in vehicles and estimate how much energy and range you would have consumed if you were driving a Model S or some other EV. It would virtually recharge at home and when near Superchargers and other charging infrastructure. You would be able to do route planning with it. Ultimately, it would give you ample statistics on your own vehicle usage and range needs. Most people would find it is very hard to brorder their Virtual EV and become more comfortable buying an EV.

This is freaking brilliant.

 

[ggies07]

How about Tesla embeds its range management software in a "Virtual EV". What the app would do is monitor your travel in vehicles and estimate how much energy and range you would have consumed if you were driving a Model S or some other EV. It would virtually recharge at home and when near Superchargers and other charging infrastructure. You would be able to do route planning with it. Ultimately, it would give you ample statistics on your own vehicle usage and range needs. Most people would find it is very hard to brorder their Virtual EV and become more comfortable buying an EV.

This is freaking brilliant.

I concur. Very nice idea.

 

[JRP3]

Why is that? It's either because established industry is trying to discourage the new technology, or because those of us who know better aren't doing a good enough job of telling the public about it. By saying things like "the leaf has less than 40 miles of range." Please.

Lying to the public and pretending that a LEAF type vehicle has more useful range than it really does will help nothing. In the conditions I laid out, based on the parameters of the study, the LEAF very well could have less than 40 miles of range. I know you prefer to pretend that never happens, yet people who have actually bought the LEAF have found it unsuitable for their needs under certain conditions and after the pack lost capacity. There are long threads on LEAF forums discussing this, and those are early adopters. If those people have well documented issues with the range of the vehicle you can be sure the general public will have even more problems, which will hurt the adoption of EV's. Further, I'll once again point out that the general public is not reading these forums, so any realistic discussion of range is not discouraging anyone and not having a negative effect on anything. Looking at EV's through your "range colored glasses" will only produce disappointment in the public. Whenever I discuss EV's with the general public I talk about rated range, with realistic and appropriate caveats, and it's almost never enough for them, unless it's a Tesla. For some, even that's not enough. That's the real world.

 

[kenliles]

How about Tesla embeds its range management software in a "Virtual EV". What the app would do is monitor your travel in vehicles and estimate how much energy and range you would have consumed if you were driving a Model S or some other EV. It would virtually recharge at home and when near Superchargers and other charging infrastructure. You would be able to do route planning with it. Ultimately, it would give you ample statistics on your own vehicle usage and range needs. Most people would find it is very hard to brorder their Virtual EV and become more comfortable buying an EV.

excellent idea