Likely Brake and Accelerator Mixup

[DJT1]

(moderator note: Originally titled

Model Y China goes on the rampage​

the title is changed to reflect the strong likelihood that this is an unfortunate driver error.)

What is going on here-

Tesla Model Y fuori controllo a tutta velocità, il filmato è terrificante

Il mondo reale in un sito web

www.urban-life.it

Translation-
"An out-of-control Tesla Model Y hurtled through the streets of a Chinese province, killing two and injuring three before crashing into a building earlier this month. The incident occurred on Nov. 5 in the city of Chaozhou, which is located along the China coast just northeast of Hong Kong.
The terrifying footage shows a white Tesla Model Y suddenly accelerating after the driver appeared to be trying to park the car, then hurtling through busy streets at excruciating speeds.
The driver's family told local media that the 55-year-old man lost control of the car and that he would not respond when he pressed the brake pedal. Tesla said it is investigating the crash. In the video it is noted that the brake pedal of the car was never applied while the Tesla was hurtling through the city. His mad dash ended up against a shop window."

 

[brkaus]

Driver pushed the go pedal to the floor thinking it was the brake pedal.

 

[DJT1]

Driver pushed the go pedal to the floor thinking it was the brake pedal.

And held it there for quite some time... Or is this V11 self park?

 

[WhiteMountains]

What is going on here-

Tesla Model Y fuori controllo a tutta velocità, il filmato è terrificante

Il mondo reale in un sito web

www.urban-life.it

Translation-
"An out-of-control Tesla Model Y hurtled through the streets of a Chinese province, killing two and injuring three before crashing into a building earlier this month. The incident occurred on Nov. 5 in the city of Chaozhou, which is located along the China coast just northeast of Hong Kong.
The terrifying footage shows a white Tesla Model Y suddenly accelerating after the driver appeared to be trying to park the car, then hurtling through busy streets at excruciating speeds.
The driver's family told local media that the 55-year-old man lost control of the car and that he would not respond when he pressed the brake pedal. Tesla said it is investigating the crash. In the video it is noted that the brake pedal of the car was never applied while the Tesla was hurtling through the city. His mad dash ended up against a shop window."

In all likelyhood, the driver was pressing the accelerator when he thought that he was pressing the brake. Very common in all cars.

 

[WhiteMountains]

And held it there for quite some time... Or is this V11 self park?

Panicked driver kept pushing the "brake" not figuring out what the problem was.

 

[brkaus]

And held it there for quite some time... Or is this V11 self park?

I wish. The current self park version is a bit slow

 

[archae86]

Audi suffered from reports a bit like this decades ago. A unifying factor is that after the fact the drivers are almost always still highly confident that they were pressing on the right pedal and that the car must have mysteriously malfunctioned.

Plenty of other brands and models as well--but the Audi cluster got special press attention, and may have been a bit related to differences in their pedal positioning.

 

[Dan D.]

This is from the story and current court case in South Korea of a car crash where the driver also alleges the car accelerated on its own. Let's suppose the driver did screw up and press the accelerator, what is the reason for the side mirrors folding in and out first?


"the car accelerated on its own and smashed into the wall after its side mirrors began folding in and out"

 

[JulienW]

This is from the story and current court case in South Korea of a car crash where the driver also alleges the car accelerated on its own. Let's suppose the driver did screw up and press the accelerator, what is the reason for the side mirrors folding in and out first?


"the car accelerated on its own and smashed into the wall after its side mirrors began folding in and out"

You are asking a question "what is the reason for the side mirrors folding in and out first" as if it is a known fact. The person also stated it accelerated out of control on its own AND the brakes failed. Why are you not also asking why those things happened also as if they were known facts?

In all likelihood he just misapplied the accelerator and that is 100% of why and what happened. He perceived or false remembers the mirrors folding just like thinking he was pushing the brakes.

 

[Dan D.]

You are asking a question "what is the reason for the side mirrors folding in and out first" as if it is a known fact. The person also stated it accelerated out of control on its own AND the brakes failed. Why are you not also asking why those things happened also as if they were known facts?

In all likelihood he just misapplied the accelerator and that is 100% of why and what happened. He perceived or false remembers the mirrors folding just like thinking he was pushing the brakes.

Ok. In the highly unlikely situation that the side mirrors folded in and out before the car accelerated on its own, what might be a mechanism for this to happen?

Or in another way. Why have the side mirrors folded in and out?
Driver's side mirror randomly unfolded outward when driving
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/side-view-mirrors-auto-fold-strange-behavior.199721/


Odd that we accept there are software glitches affecting systems like braking, lighting, heating, seatbelts, emergency communications, mirrors. But we don't accept there are software glitches affecting acceleration. I guess acceleration is immune.

Tesla recalls over 321,000 vehicles due to taillight software issue

The recall covers certain Model 3 and Model Y vehicles.

www.theverge.com

Tesla Remotely Recalls Full Self-Driving Software for 'Phantom Braking' Problem - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports shares details of Tesla's recall of the Full Self-Driving software for a "phantom braking" problem. The software update has already been sent to over 11,000 vehicles.

www.consumerreports.org

Tesla recalls over 26K U.S. vehicles over software problem - National | Globalnews.ca

Tesla is recalling over 26,000 vehicles in the United States due to a software problem, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said Wednesday.

globalnews.ca

Tesla Recalls 59,000 Vehicles Over Software Glitch | IoT World Today

The issue is with the vehicle’s emergency call system

www.iotworldtoday.com

Tesla recalls 817,000 vehicles for seat-belt chime glitch | Car News | Auto123

Tesla is issuing a recall of 817,143 vehicles to fix a software glitch that can mute the seat belt chime that is supposed to sound on start-up.

www.auto123.com

 

[JulienW]

Ok. In the highly unlikely situation that the side mirrors folded in and out before the car accelerated on its own, what might be a mechanism for this to happen?

Or in another way. Why have the side mirrors folded in and out?
Driver's side mirror randomly unfolded outward when driving

...and the standard mechanical brakes failing at the same time this improbable multi-software glitches are happening? I'm gone guess a hundred million to one or less.

Occam's razor: Multiple and unprecedented software events happen at the same time and simultaneously the mechanical brakes fail OR it was human mistaken misapplication of the peddle events just like happens 1000's of times every year?

 

[Dan D.]

...and the standard mechanical brakes failing at the same time this improbable multi-software glitches are happening? I'm gone guess a hundred million to one or less.

Occam's razor: Multiple and unprecedented software events happen at the same time and simultaneously the mechanical brakes fail OR it was human mistaken misapplication of the peddle events just like happens 1000's of times every year?

Well is it correct that the brake booster is computer controlled? I mean it's not running in Camp Mode or Dog Mode is it, or while the car is off?

Maybe there is a possibility that under a certain circumstance of faulty code the brake booster is turned off and the acceleration is turned on. The result could be an uncontrollable acceleration. You'd have to have the software/hardware fully audited to know.

As far as the telemetry from Tesla saying the accelerator pedal was pressed - well to be fair we only have their word for that. The fox said he definitely was not in the hen house, that's proof enough.

 

[JulienW]

Well is it correct that the brake booster is computer controlled?....

The brakes are connected directly from the pedal to the calipers by a mechanical linkage. The booster (power brakes) is just to make them easer to push. No matter what the brakes work (at least manually) unless the mechanical linkage is severed or broken.

Seems you are in doubt so it might be best for you to sell your Tesla. Since all car manufactures face these sudden acceleration accusations (Tesla just makes better click bate headlines) you may need to go horse and buggy to be safe.

 

[Dewg]

The brakes are connected directly from the pedal to the calipers by a mechanical linkage. The booster (power brakes) is just to make them easer to push. No matter what the brakes work (at least manually) unless the mechanical linkage is severed or broken.

Seems you are in doubt so it might be best for you to sell your Tesla. Since all car manufactures face these sudden acceleration accusations (Tesla just makes better click bate headlines) you may need to go horse and buggy to be safe.

Hmmmm - I don't think that's good advice

Spooked horse runs wild, knocks passengers out of carriage in downtown Savannah

A spooked horse and the carriage it was pulling caused havoc for six blocks Monday afternoon in downtown Savannah, damaging five vehicles along Congress Street and injuring the driver of the carriage…

www.jacksonville.com

 

[Supcom]

Maybe there is a possibility that under a certain circumstance of faulty code the brake booster is turned off and the acceleration is turned on. The result could be an uncontrollable acceleration. You'd have to have the software/hardware fully audited to know.

Even if the booster has completely failed, you can still apply the brakes. It will take more force, but they still work. Automotive engineers solved that failure mode many years ago.

However, even perfect brakes cannot stop a car at full throttle.

 

[brkaus]

However, even perfect brakes cannot stop a car at full throttle.

I believe most car brakes will stop a car at full throttle. The key is pushing brakes hard to get it to stop before they overheat.

 

[Supcom]

I believe most car brakes will stop a car at full throttle. The key is pushing brakes hard to get it to stop before they overheat.

I should have done some research. It does appear that the brakes should be able to overpower the motor. Somewhere in my distant past, I got the wrong impression. Of course, without the brake booster, it would be difficult, but the probability of both brake booster failure and motor runaway are extremely small.

 

[Dan D.]

I should have done some research. It does appear that the brakes should be able to overpower the motor. Somewhere in my distant past, I got the wrong impression. Of course, without the brake booster, it would be difficult, but the probability of both brake booster failure and motor runaway are extremely small.

"the probability of both brake booster failure and motor runaway are extremely small"

That is exactly the theoretical failure mode I proposed, an extremely rare event. Brake booster turned off, acceleration turned on full due to a software glitch. The brake pedal goes hard and provides minimal braking force after a few seconds. People are saying you can still stop the car. Yes, you can stop the car with a lot of foot force - so long as the car is under NO throttle. Under full engine power in a software glitch situation where the car is not responding to the "brake pedal turns off acceleration" safety mode, and the brake booster is turned off, then I doubt you can brake the car.

This is just a theory. But that's the nature of a software glitch, something happening that isn't supposed to happen. If almost everything in a car is computer controlled then just about anything is possible. Having a mechanical linkage to the brake is still practically useless if the power brakes are turned off and the engine is at high power and won't shut off. Probably even in an ICE car?

I'm not saying this happened in any of the preceding crashes. Just consider with an open mind whether it's possible. I mean, "extremely small" is still a number. There haven't been many SUA crashes, in fact there have been an extremely small number of them.

 

[derotam]

you may need to go horse and buggy to be safe

Horses suffer from unintended acceleration as well.

 

[quickstrike12]

Reference the Korea crash.

As far as the mirrors folding in and out, I believe this most likely happened. If I understand the article correctly this guy was a “designated driver” of sorts that is common in that part of the world. when called they come to you and drive you home in your own car. The car wasn’t his. The mirrors most likely were set to fold at that location. Possibly when passing through an entrance gate or somethin. Mine open and close everyday at work when nearing our guard shack area. Anyone but me would think the car was going crazy with the mirrors.
I believe this guy wasn’t familiar with the car and hit the wrong pedal in a panic. He probably honestly believes he was mashing the brake in his mind.