Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Lending Club

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
<snip> They take a fee for loan issuance and for aftermarket transactions. <snip>
Excellent article: Lending Club Can Be a Better Bank Than the Banks - Bloomberg View

Related to Fitch Ratings.

Title: The Fitch P2P Lending Report: 5 Things They Got Right and 3 Things They Got Wrong
by Stu Lustman
via http://p2plendingexpert.com/the-fit...s-they-got-right-and-3-things-they-got-wrong/

Overview --- see details at link above.

The Rights
1) Limited Operating History
2) Unpredictable Cash Flows
3) Underwriting generally consistent with industry practices
4) Minimal Cash/Capital Requirements
5) Key Man Issues

The Wrongs
1) The Impact of Rising Interest Rates
2) Lack of Diverse Funding Sources
3) Online Platform Increases Potential for Fraud

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fitch-ratings.asp
Quote
Definition of 'Fitch Ratings'
An international credit rating agency based out of New York City and London. The company's ratings are used as a guide to investors as to which investments are most likely going to yield a return. It is based on factors such as how small an economic shift would be necessary to affect the standing of the bond, and how much, and what kind of debt is held by the company.

Investopedia explains 'Fitch Ratings'
Along with Moody's and Standard & Poor's, Fitch is one of the top three credit rating agencies. Its rating system is very similar to S&P's in that they both use a letter system.​
 
Last edited:
Aug Update

Still happy with the results. 9.5% ish. Note I am taking about $1000/month of income that is why the balance isn't going up as fast as the monthly return implies.

lc_trend_9_2.JPG
 
Oct Update

Things are still going strong with my account. I have a par of $1100 per month that I want to make, so I have been taking $1000/month out, but last month I took out $2000 just because the balance is doing better than in needed to.

lc_trend_11_10_2014.JPG


Also, the IPO time is growing near it would seem:

Log In - The New York Times

It is interesting that they are maybe going to offer IPO shares to members. No one has reached out to me, but I emailed them today to see what the deal is.
 
I've noticed that things are doing better on my Lending Club account as well. Probably something to do with an improving economy and stricter Lending Club rules.

Despite an increasing IRR, I would characterize it as steady but good for these 7 months. I suspect my IRR going up is me choosing higher yielding notes and doing better reinvesting cash. Which is awesome. This experiment is meant to ask the question, could I not replace a 6 figure income with $1M in LC? So far I don't see the problem.

I am thinking of amping up my balance again.

But yes, it could also reflect macro conditions.
 
I think it has more to do with Macro conditions, I started Lending Club in 2008 and did dismally the first few years from so many people stealing (yes, literally they are thieves) the money via "bankruptcy". That has gone down to next to nothing in the last year or so and my returns recently are much, much better.
 
I think it has more to do with Macro conditions, I started Lending Club in 2008 and did dismally the first few years from so many people stealing (yes, literally they are thieves) the money via "bankruptcy". That has gone down to next to nothing in the last year or so and my returns recently are much, much better.

I always thought a nice scam would be to borrow as much as you could, miss payments, then buy your own debt back at a sharp discount through a proxy. You wreck your credit in the process, but even that could be limited by taking 80 days off payments, and then suddenly catching up and making the payments. Work on repairing your credit since you can say you were just late for a little while and made good on your payments, but you hold your own debt at that point so you don't mind making the payments anyway.
 
LC vs Dividend stocks

I am never happy with these analyses, but I think I have enough to make some observations.

I have a chunk of money in taxable accounts. The goal of this is for ordinary income for monthly expenses. Basically, instead of paying cash for $100k cars and such, I borrowed and am investing the cash instead and that income makes the payments. (So it isn't subject to TSLA investing or anything.) I have about $150k in LC, and about $140k in a balanced portfolio of widow/orphan stocks and high yielding bond funds. Here are my holdings:

port_share_1.JPG


With % of the 140k and the approximate div yield when I picked them, about 2 years ago. These are about as boring as I can go, but among dividend people this is edgy, with the NLY and AT&T heaviness for instance.

So this portfolio has 3 advantages over LC:
1) If held for >12 months (which it has been) the dividends are taxed at 15%, instead of ordinary income. (28% for my bracket)
2) The shares themselves could appreciate, with the market.
3) Liquidity and normality.

LC has these advantages over a dividend portfolio:
1) Higher yield, even with the tax advantage.
2) Steady, steady, steady. A stock market correction would not affect LC.
3) Continuous income stream instead of chunky quarterly or monthly dividends.


Here is a chart of an analysis I did of yields:

yield_share_1.JPG


Note this is not a simulation. This is my actual results. I have a longer track record on the LC, but these are the actual observed annualized yield. The way to interpret this chart is that for the dates along the bottom, I was getting that annualized yield. LC is drifting up because I am taking higher yielding (riskier) notes. The Dividend portfolio settled out at about 3.5%.

This chart shows the effect of the tax advantage. The tax hit for the LC is worse than the dividend portfolio, but is so much higher that it still ends up well ahead. Taking tax into account, LC still yields twice what this decent dividend portfolio could do.

For Income, LC is crushing it.

But wait you say, the stocks might appreciate, and indeed they did. Over the time period shown there (Since about Oct 2013) the DJ has gone up 22%. So the overall yield of the Div stocks was much better overall than LC, in an unrealized sense. But to say that it provided more income I would have to be selling off some shares along the way which I didn't. My goal was always to regard the stocks as income producers and ignore their market value and hold them essentially forever.

However, this feature is also a bug of course. The market is due for a big correction and those gains will drop eventually. So I am ignoring the affect of capital appreciation or loss.

So I think this is a good first order analysis. There are two niggling things that are really hard to analyse, in the second order:

1) Stocks have a inflation tracking feature. While I can say that I want to ignore capital appreciation, I think it is fair to observe that over say decades the balance will be no worse than inflation adjusted. The LC notes will have recirculated on a 5 year rolling basis, but am I not investing in todays valuable dollars for returned capital years from now? One could argue that I should deduct a portion of the growth to compensate for inflation.
2) Stocks' dividends themselves grow. The yield chart above, over a very long period of time, would show the dividend yields growing and eventually crossing the fixed LC yield. This would take decades however. This is the capital appreciation manifesting, since as the value of companies increase, the market will tend to keep the div yield constant which means increasing dividends on a dollar basis. The affect of that is painfully slow however and may not occur for decades.

I haven't figured out how to do this analysis.

In the end, I am liking the slow steady dependability of the LC income. A Dividend portfolio has some long term features that you could argue make it better over a lifetime, but LC is paying handsomely now.
 
Thanks a ton for all the posts in this thread AustinEV!

I came across Lending Club a few years back and somehow didn't take interest as I felt I would do better in the stock market over long period of time, even if I simply invested in Index ETFs.

Only recently I took up greater interest in studying their business model primarily because of the up coming IPO. After much research I discovered, ironically, that their Business model is great for leading out (leveraged) money than as a stock investment (because of valuation).

Here is what I am thinking: say I have 500K in a stock investment portfolio. I could use Interactive Brokers to raise money against it at rates 1.6% or less. I would raise less than say 20 to 25% of my capital just to be safe, to not ever get a margin call. Lend that money out on LC for a much higher rate. I would only do 3-year loans because in a raising interest rate environment I want the reinvestments at higher interest rates happening faster. Also I would only invest in A, B, C rated loans to protect myself in case of any unforeseen recessions and higher default rates. Considering all this, one could easily make 5% of free money on the leveraged capital.

I wouldn't want to invest leveraged money back in the stock market because that will cause the volatility of the portfolio to go up proportionally. In an unlikely event, that could trigger a margin call at precisely the wrong time - when the stock market is at a historic low. While lending out leveraged money on LC wouldn't cause such an increase in the overall portfolio's volatility so it's a much safer thing to do.

Do you have any thoughts on this strategy?
 
Last edited:
I am never happy with these analyses, but I think I have enough to make some observations.

I have a chunk of money in taxable accounts. The goal of this is for ordinary income for monthly expenses. Basically, instead of paying cash for $100k cars and such, I borrowed and am investing the cash instead and that income makes the payments. (So it isn't subject to TSLA investing or anything.) I have about $150k in LC, and about $140k in a balanced portfolio of widow/orphan stocks and high yielding bond funds. Here are my holdings:

View attachment 64210

With % of the 140k and the approximate div yield when I picked them, about 2 years ago. These are about as boring as I can go, but among dividend people this is edgy, with the NLY and AT&T heaviness for instance.

So this portfolio has 3 advantages over LC:
1) If held for >12 months (which it has been) the dividends are taxed at 15%, instead of ordinary income. (28% for my bracket)
2) The shares themselves could appreciate, with the market.
3) Liquidity and normality.

LC has these advantages over a dividend portfolio:
1) Higher yield, even with the tax advantage.
2) Steady, steady, steady. A stock market correction would not affect LC.
3) Continuous income stream instead of chunky quarterly or monthly dividends.


Here is a chart of an analysis I did of yields:

View attachment 64211

Note this is not a simulation. This is my actual results. I have a longer track record on the LC, but these are the actual observed annualized yield. The way to interpret this chart is that for the dates along the bottom, I was getting that annualized yield. LC is drifting up because I am taking higher yielding (riskier) notes. The Dividend portfolio settled out at about 3.5%.

This chart shows the effect of the tax advantage. The tax hit for the LC is worse than the dividend portfolio, but is so much higher that it still ends up well ahead. Taking tax into account, LC still yields twice what this decent dividend portfolio could do.

For Income, LC is crushing it.

But wait you say, the stocks might appreciate, and indeed they did. Over the time period shown there (Since about Oct 2013) the DJ has gone up 22%. So the overall yield of the Div stocks was much better overall than LC, in an unrealized sense. But to say that it provided more income I would have to be selling off some shares along the way which I didn't. My goal was always to regard the stocks as income producers and ignore their market value and hold them essentially forever.

However, this feature is also a bug of course. The market is due for a big correction and those gains will drop eventually. So I am ignoring the affect of capital appreciation or loss.

So I think this is a good first order analysis. There are two niggling things that are really hard to analyse, in the second order:

1) Stocks have a inflation tracking feature. While I can say that I want to ignore capital appreciation, I think it is fair to observe that over say decades the balance will be no worse than inflation adjusted. The LC notes will have recirculated on a 5 year rolling basis, but am I not investing in todays valuable dollars for returned capital years from now? One could argue that I should deduct a portion of the growth to compensate for inflation.
2) Stocks' dividends themselves grow. The yield chart above, over a very long period of time, would show the dividend yields growing and eventually crossing the fixed LC yield. This would take decades however. This is the capital appreciation manifesting, since as the value of companies increase, the market will tend to keep the div yield constant which means increasing dividends on a dollar basis. The affect of that is painfully slow however and may not occur for decades.

I haven't figured out how to do this analysis.

In the end, I am liking the slow steady dependability of the LC income. A Dividend portfolio has some long term features that you could argue make it better over a lifetime, but LC is paying handsomely now.

For the last year, investing in stocks would have been much better than investing in LC.
but you obviously can't count on stocks appreciating like they have been; you need to heavily reduce your expected rate of return on stocks compared to its 2014 performance. (9% average?)
but I would think that LC tends to do well when stocks are doing well, and LC would tend to do poorly when stocks are doing poorly, no? Wouldn't a collapse of the economy cause stocks to tank AND also cause enough defaults to make your LC return negative as well? Is LC really a lot less risky than stocks? How did LC accounts do in late 2000 or late 2008 when stocks were doing lousy?
 
...but I would think that LC tends to do well when stocks are doing well, and LC would tend to do poorly when stocks are doing poorly, no? Wouldn't a collapse of the economy cause stocks to tank AND also cause enough defaults to make your LC return negative as well? Is LC really a lot less risky than stocks? How did LC accounts do in late 2000 or late 2008 when stocks were doing lousy?

1) Via: Facts About Peer-to-Peer Lending (Infographic) | Crowdfund Insider


MuvMRVC.png


2) Five Year Review: Lending Club Notes Outpace Stocks and Bonds Nov 2012


http://blog.lendingclub.com/five-year-review-lending-club-notes-outpace-stocks-and-bonds