Lawn mowers and gardening equipment pollution: Why are ICE engines still legal in California?

[Big Earl]

As long as you can keep charging the batteries and are able to have a lot of them if you are doing large jobs. They would be better than Gas But in certain situations gas is better. Such as if you have a lot of trees to cut or you are out where there is no electricity I see both as being equally useful in most situations. I would need a lot of batteries to clear debris after a storm Such as Hurricane Irma

Battery power doesn't meet all needs for all people (I feel like I'm addressing a 2012 anti-EV argument), but it can meet most needs for most people. Your average homeowner probably isn't going to tackle either of the two tree removal examples you pictured, deferring to professionals and insurance companies.

In my case, a gas powered chainsaw or pressure washer would be a hassle. I use them so infrequently that maintaining fresh gas and performing annual oil changes would be more trouble than it's worth. Battery powered tools keep maintenance to a minimum while offering quiet and powerful operation that can handle every job I've had for them, including jobs that are outside of the typical use case.

Touching on natural disasters for a moment, I could charge my tools from our home generator or from our EVs in the event that the grid went down. The energy stored in one of our three EVs would be enough to keep our chainsaw going for a long time.

 

[nwdiver]

As long as you can keep charging the batteries and are able to have a lot of them if you are doing large jobs. They would be better than Gas But in certain situations gas is better. Such as if you have a lot of trees to cut or you are out where there is no electricity I see both as being equally useful in most situations. I would need a lot of batteries to clear debris after a storm Such as Hurricane Irma

Where are you getting the gasoline?

What's your definition of 'a lot' of batteries? Maybe ~5 years ago that may have been true but not so much today. With 3 batteries and some solar you can keep working almost indefinitely. I know with my Milwaukee tools batteries charge faster than I can use them.

Fools fueled powered ICE vs battery is a bit like a horse vs ICE. Sure.... there may be some VERY... VERY specific niches where a horse makes more sense but not so much that it's remotely rational to keep one around except just to have a horse.

 

[Chaserr]

I have an electric chainsaw and it would take me a few dozen charges to clear that big fallen tree. I would just hire someone to come do it; I can clear the branches but the trunk would take forever and I'd rather keep my electric saw than get a gas one for a one time thing like that.

 

[nwdiver]

I have an electric chainsaw and it would take me a few dozen charges to clear that big fallen tree. I would just hire someone to come do it; I can clear the branches but the trunk would take forever and I'd rather keep my electric saw than get a gas one for a one time thing like that.

You either need a new chainsaw or a wood chipper (and stop using your chainsaw as a wood chipper)

 

[Chaserr]

Replacing a functional electric appliance with a new appliance every time an imaginary scenario presents itself is worse than just hiring someone once per lifetime, if ever.

 

[ohmman]

Hmm. I didn't realize these battery ZTR mowers existed. I'm definitely in the market and will be watching. I'd strongly prefer a garden tractor, but 90% of my tractor usage is mowing, so they may be a good option. I see that Greenworks is coming out with a ZTR soon as well.

 

[RubberToe]

Latest print issue of Fortune with the Fortune 500 list had a 16 page spread featuring Stihl battery powered lawn care products. BTW, Tesla moved up from 144 to 124 with $24,578,000,000 in revenue. Here are some thumb nails of the spread, with a full image of the last page showing all the goodies featured:

 

[dgpcolorado]

Another Greenworks Daily Deal sale at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/deal/6bd9490c?ref=dotd_h_img&ref_=pe_837390_510010000&pldnSite=1

Don't know if these prices are attractive, since I don't track them.

I did find that the Greenworks chainsaws were not well thought of by buyers, due to leaking bar oil, when I researched battery chainsaws last year.

 

[ohmman]

For those with the 40V Greenworks system (I have the 80V), this inverter looks pretty neat and inexpensive:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZACMQ1

I was considering buying one if there was an 80V version, but I don't actually know what I'd use it for. I have Powerwalls at home and when camping, I have 240Ah of lithium in the camper and a huge battery pack in my Tesla.

 

[cpa]

For those with the 40V Greenworks system (I have the 80V), this inverter looks pretty neat and inexpensive:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZACMQ1

I was considering buying one if there was an 80V version, but I don't actually know what I'd use it for. I have Powerwalls at home and when camping, I have 240Ah of lithium in the camper and a huge battery pack in my Tesla.

For those of us who learned debits and credits in school, what does 240Ah of lithium mean? To my understanding it is not a measurement of weight, so it must be something else.

 

[Chaserr]

Ah is used as a measurement of battery capacity. It can be converted to kWh but you need to know the volts.

 

[ohmman]

For those of us who learned debits and credits in school, what does 240Ah of lithium mean? To my understanding it is not a measurement of weight, so it must be something else.

Ah is used as a measurement of battery capacity. It can be converted to kWh but you need to know the volts.

In RVs, it’s typically a 12V system. So 240Ah is 2.88kWh.

 

[cpa]

In RVs, it’s typically a 12V system. So 240Ah is 2.88kWh.

Thank you, Ohmman. Then can I infer that the Ah measurement of battery capacity really has no meaning as a stand-alone unit until it is paired with the system that it is linked to? For example, if the system were 48 volts instead of 12 volts, then a 60Ah capacity would be the equivalent of your RV rig.

Just for my curiosity, why is this unit an Ah? Since you multiply by volts to get watt-hours, I assume that the A stands for amperes, and the h stands for hours. Amperes measure current. Batteries are inert until a circuit is closed. So no current in an inert battery, right? This confuses me.

They should have offered physics in high school. Alas, it was discontinued from my high school curriculum in 1966 and not reinstated until 1974; I was graduated in 1971.

 

[ohmman]

Thank you, Ohmman. Then can I infer that the Ah measurement of battery capacity really has no meaning as a stand-alone unit until it is paired with the system that it is linked to? For example, if the system were 48 volts instead of 12 volts, then a 60Ah capacity would be the equivalent of your RV rig.

Just for my curiosity, why is this unit an Ah? Since you multiply by volts to get watt-hours, I assume that the A stands for amperes, and the h stands for hours. Amperes measure current. Batteries are inert until a circuit is closed. So no current in an inert battery, right? This confuses me.

They should have offered physics in high school. Alas, it was discontinued from my high school curriculum in 1966 and not reinstated until 1974; I was graduated in 1971.

On this forum, I should have used the appropriate terminology. You have it correct. In RV parlance, most everything is discussed in "amps" because it is implied that systems are 12V. Standard lead-acid and AGM batteries are rated in Ah, and it becomes easy for an owner to see that, for instance, their refrigerator pulls 5A. It has a duty cycle of maybe 1/3 at the worst, so 5A * 1/3 * 24h = 40Ah drawdown per day on the batteries.

12V is just removed from all sides of the equation. But you are absolutely correct that Wh or kWh is a more accurate unit. My apologies for going the lazy route.

 

[miimura]

Lead acid batteries are always rated in Amp-Hours. The more confusing thing is that you can get more Ah out of said batteries if you discharge them slowly. Most are rated in Ah at 20 hour discharge to some standardized low voltage cutoff. You get many fewer Ah out when you discharge them in 2 hours, the other standard discharge test.
Personally I forgive @ohmman for the infraction because it is so common in that market space.

 

[iPlug]

Lawn was getting too long this afternoon, so went out to get it done. But with all the smoke it looked more like dusk than the 3 hours it really was before then. So put on an N95 mask and turned on the Ryobi mower and was caught off guard to enjoy a feature previously useless to me - the LED headlight.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Another Amazon deal of the day on Greenworks garden tools. Mower, string trimmer, rototiller. These all seem to be 40V, as opposed to 80V, so perhaps not of interest.

Greenworks Deal of the Day

 

[mspohr]

Oakland bans some types of lawn and garden equipment | KRON4

 

[nwdiver]

Oakland bans some types of lawn and garden equipment | KRON4

It's about time. It's insane that crap is still manufactured....

 

[iPlug]

Oakland bans some types of lawn and garden equipment | KRON4

This looks to be for string trimmers and leaf blowers, but no mention of mowers. Still, a good start. Bay area started legislating no new residential and commercial natural gas use and encouraging heat pumps and looks like they are taking leadership here again.

Baffled why this has not started rollout in some fashion statewide already. Going on a walk, biking, or running, the noxious fumes are obvious houses away. As bad as this is for simply a passer by, imagine the long term health effects of one periodically operating the equipment and at least an order of magnitude worse for those who use it daily for their job.