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Is this the correct wire for 14-50?
- Thread starter NOC man
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- 14-50 wire
As long as you're installing in a wall or planning on running through PVC conduit, this will do just fine. Black/Red for the hot wires coming from the breaker, white for the neutral on the neutral bar in the panel, bare wire goes to the ground bar in the breaker panel.
Thanks! It’s in a wall and the outlet will be within a foot of the breaker. Thanks for the sanity check!
eprosenx
Active Member
Yeah, that wire is fine for your application as @solodogg points out.
One important clarification though:
That wire is not OK if in conduit outdoors. Any outdoors runs are always considered “wet locations” and so NM cable (romex) is not approved (it has paper inside).
I should also mention that the type of conduit does not matter. EMT (metal) conduit can be sealed similarly to PVC. Either way romex is not allowed in it outdoors.
But the necessary factors are all spelled out here; this is definitely fine. It is specifically stated that this is for a 14-50 outlet, and this is 6 gauge copper. That will always cover up to a 50A circuit.
eprosenx
Active Member
I totally agree with @Rocky_H for pretty much any reasonable use case.
But the pedantic side of me feels the need to point out (for others as a learning opportunity) that technically if you shoved that wire in the same conduit or stud holes as a bunch of other wires and/or you installed it in an environment with an extremely high ambient temperature, then that wire might not be sufficient for a 50a circuit.
But that would be a very contrived scenario not likely to happen in the real world. ;-)
This is why there are no fixed absolutes in wire sizing. There are a couple/few modifiers to the base wire rating charts.
They would not be in the same place. Let's say you are talking about the location that would be "wet". The garage floor has a puddle on it. Well, you aren't allowed to just run Romex cable exposed along the floor that would be wet. Romex would need to be inside a wall, which is not wet, or it can also be inside conduit running along the wall indoors, which is also not considered a wet location.
eprosenx
Active Member
I also think a lot of the reason for requiring ground fault in the garage is because folks run cords out the door and use them outside in the rain, etc...
Probably also, folks are more likely to do things like cut through a cord with a saw and so in some instances (not water related) a gfci may shut off the power faster than just the standard thermal magnetic trip in a regular breaker.
You should still run conduit for that foot between the outlet and the breaker box (assuming that part is exposed). Otherwise, behind walls, NM doesn't need conduit.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Sorry for the thread hijack but I’ve never understood why a high amperage circuit is more dangerous? Similarly I’ve never understood why a 240V circuit is considered more dangerous since it has the same voltage to ground as a 120V circuit.
Current is a measure of voltage over resistance, Ohm's law. It's a high current that burns you and fibrillates your heart. Your body is going to act like a resistor when you join the circuit.
A low amperage circuit is not going to allow you to draw as much current. Given your body stays consistent, a higher voltage is going to draw a higher current, it's a linear relationship.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
If you're pumping enough current through your body to trip a 15A breaker you're already dead. 0.1-0.2 Amps is considered lethal. I don't think the resistance of your body is low enough for the breaker to matter.
240V circuits aren't higher voltage. They're just two 120V circuits with opposite phase, unless you're touching both conductors in such a way to get the current to flow across your heart it should be the same safety as a 120V circuit.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Thread hijacked. Mission accomplished.
I assume it is more dangerous in the sense that it is possible to generate a lot more heat (I^2*R) in a circuit fault before tripping the breaker? Though I would think 1800W from a 120V 15A circuit would be dangerous enough that even this seems questionable. I could see that maybe with a 50A circuit there might be various catastrophic failures (someone accidentally cuts the line, shorts to something poorly grounded) which are bad enough to immediately cause major problems, but not be enough to trip the breaker. Whereas such major problems would more frequently trip the 15A breaker?
As far as electrocution risk, other than your noted bridging of the hots across your heart, seems no less safe. I thought 240V was strong enough to lock you onto the source, though? While with 120V you just vibrate (that’s what I remember the one time I tried touching 120V to ground...)?
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
But 1800W is way more than enough to start a fire. Is the probably of a failure that creates a short between 15A and 50A really all that likely? It seems like most shorts would conduct less than 15A (soft short) or way more than 50A (hard short).
There is no way to get 240V to ground from a 240V circuit, it’s just two 120V circuits of opposite phase.
A) Admittedly, I've only been around commercial electrical installation
B) Not an electrician, just someone who's spent way too much time and effort worrying about getting his machines installed, etc. (I have an ice cream manufacturing company.)
C) Personally, I would never install wiring into any commercial building, or home, which is not in metal conduit. It doesn't cost that much more, especially if you order it online, and its much safer.
B) Not an electrician, just someone who's spent way too much time and effort worrying about getting his machines installed, etc. (I have an ice cream manufacturing company.)
C) Personally, I would never install wiring into any commercial building, or home, which is not in metal conduit. It doesn't cost that much more, especially if you order it online, and its much safer.
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