-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Is plugging in at a public place stealing?
- Thread starter Jkam
- Start date
Realistically speaking, everyone realizes that charging your phone takes a negligible amount of power. While technically that could be considered cheating, most people aren't so CHEAP as to object to it.
The difference with electric cars is that most people (ICE drivers) expect it to cost over $60 to fill your car. That misconception is behind things like condo boards banning EVs.
Taking electricity from a public outlet or a private outlet is stealing.
When I go on a road trip, I plan to use hotels that offer charging or will try to arrange access to a plug if they don't have a dedicated charger. I'd thought about getting a device like a Kill-A-Watt that can measure my electric use so the outlet owner can be fairly compensated (and I don't get screwed). With the installation of networks of dedicated charging stations nationwide, I expect that problems with access to chargers to be short-lived. I hope that I'm not really being stupid!
When I go on a road trip, I plan to use hotels that offer charging or will try to arrange access to a plug if they don't have a dedicated charger. I'd thought about getting a device like a Kill-A-Watt that can measure my electric use so the outlet owner can be fairly compensated (and I don't get screwed). With the installation of networks of dedicated charging stations nationwide, I expect that problems with access to chargers to be short-lived. I hope that I'm not really being stupid!
From the article: average residential rate of 32.6 cents per kilowatt-hour for March...
It is stealing and it isn't really trivial if done on a daily basis. On the other hand it is annoying to see the pay-for option charging much more than than would be reasonable cost versus plugging in to the disallowed public socket and reimbursing the site for cost plus delivery charges.
Until some social norms are established, I think it is safest to just charge at home exclusively.
It is stealing and it isn't really trivial if done on a daily basis. On the other hand it is annoying to see the pay-for option charging much more than than would be reasonable cost versus plugging in to the disallowed public socket and reimbursing the site for cost plus delivery charges.
Until some social norms are established, I think it is safest to just charge at home exclusively.
Our off-peak rate (7pm - noon) is $.06 per kilowatt-hour year round. If I were you, I'd move . . . or install solar, wind . . . or maybe a generator attached to your exercise bicycle.
I tried to find a Kill-a-Watt meter that would measure higher voltage than 120 or higher current than 15 amps. I could not. Apparently bigger meters are very expensive.
As for what's "fair" to charge for using a public EVSE, they are very expensive to install, and until there are more EVs on the road they won't get a lot of use. It's reasonable for a business to expect 3% to 5% return on an investment. This means they need to charge enough above operating costs that their yearly profit is 3% to 5% of their installation cost. And the lower their estimate of usage is, the more they need to charge to make that figure.
I think a metered plug makes more sense than an EVSE, but then there are legal issues: An EVSE assures that the far end of the cord is not energized until it's connected to the car. A metered plug does not.
I charge exclusively at home. I just don't feel I can ever assume that a charge spot will be available when I want one.
I hate to break it to you, Daniel, but private business needs something closer to 15% ROE to justify investment. Even rate-regulated utilities get 10.5% or higher ROE. WACC of 8% could work for creditworthy companies with low-risk business.
Businesses are going to price EV charging with an eye towards attracting business to their company.
Businesses are going to price EV charging with an eye towards attracting business to their company.
I said it's "reasonable" for them to want 3 to 5 percent. I didn't say they wouldn't want more.
But my point was that they need to make a return on their investment, not just pay for the electricity. And with an uncertain number of users per day or month, they'll set their rates high until there is enough competition for the market to establish "reasonable" rates. I stand corrected on the percent ROI that typical businesses demand.
People who expect to pay residential electric rates or a slight amount over, for public charging, are not being realistic, though some businesses may offer free low-power charging as a loss leader to entice customers in, or because they want to promote EVs.
At 3% it will take them 33.3 years to get their money back on investment, no profit yet. Not a very good incentive!
Yes, but your principal is relatively secure. Investing in an EVSE which has a declining value over time is different.
Last edited:
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Where is the average rate $0.326/kWh for residential? Hawaii? On the mainland the average is $0.12/kWh with rates as low as $0.03/kWh in some places
PG&E for California! Peak rate is or has gone up to $0.41/kWh. I believe the most expensive in the world for a large service provider.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I am 3.5 years average into 18.5 KW of solar, and they have paid for themselves at this rate. I did the install though.
david_42
Member
Similar threads
