Is anyone paying these prices???

[green1]

Nope, the Model S is on the eligible list, with a note that says you can't do it because Tesla doesn't have the capacity to handle it... so basically Tesla (not the government) is blocking the import of used Model S in to Canada right now

This pisses me off because they claim to be "different", and yet use the same protectionist market garbage that all the other car manufacturers use to maintain their US/Canada price difference (even if smaller than most)

 

[Canuck]

Nope, the Model S is on the eligible [inadmissible] list, with a note that says you can't do it because Tesla doesn't have the capacity to handle it... so basically Tesla (not the government) is blocking the import of used Model S in to Canada right now

This pisses me off because they claim to be "different", and yet use the same protectionist market garbage that all the other car manufacturers use to maintain their US/Canada price difference (even if smaller than most)

Here's that note, from the link I posted previously:

Note-2: Tesla Motors has informed Transport Canada that Tesla service centers are currently not in a position to support the substantial modifications required to bring U.S.Model S vehicles into compliance with Canadian requirements. Contact the manufacturer for further details.

 

[green1]

Here's that note, from the link I posted previously:

Note-2: Tesla Motors has informed Transport Canada that Tesla service centers are currently not in a position to support the substantial modifications required to bring U.S.Model S vehicles into compliance with Canadian requirements. Contact the manufacturer for further details.

Tesla has so far refused to tell anyone what "substantial modifications" there would be. however everyone's best guess so far has been a firmware update, and potentially (though unlikely) a bumper replacement.

I get very tired of Canadian "safety" standards for cars. There is zero evidence of any safety advantage, the differences themselves are pretty much negligible (and were pushed for strongly by the large auto-makers) however they are routinely used by manufacturers to artificially limit imports.

 

[gavine]

No tax on a used car huh? Here in NJ and I thought everywhere, when you register the car, they look at the selling price listed on the title and you pay tax. I guess that's not the case everywhere?

By the way, there's no sales tax on NEW zero-emissions vehicle purchases if you live in NJ. That was a nice savings for me and definitely helped justify the total cost of my S. I saved about $5K on sales tax. I wonder if that applies to used Zero Em

 

[andrewket]

I bet it's the wireless. Gsm sim swap.

 

[green1]

I bet it's the wireless. Gsm sim swap.

Last someone checked, the Canadian cars were still using an american SIM card and just "roaming" in Canada. It's possible that has changed, but I haven't heard any word on it. Either way though, there's nothing in the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS) about the SIM chip, so it wouldn't be grounds for blocking the import.

Really this is just Tesla being another car company. Canadians are used to car companies screwing us over on this front, Tesla has decided that this isn't a part of the experience that they are interested in improving. They apparently like the status quo. They also didn't allow the Roadster to be imported in Canada until after they stopped selling it new, the fact that it was suddenly ok to import it once the used cars weren't competing with new sales says a lot about the motivation.

 

[Zythryn]

In my case, I'll probably be listing our Sig for $150,000.
Basically, as the 116th one built with unique (for NA) OEM wheels, it is a collectors item.
AND, I am not all that encouraged to sell it. If someone is willing to pay a premium for it, they can have it.
If not, I will happily keep driving it.

I suspect many of the high priced cars are similar. The owner doesn't need to sell, but figures if someone is willing to pay a premium to have it now, so be it.

 

[gpetti]

I will be selling so I'm watching this thread with some interest as I need to guage the market. My car is basically loaded except for the child seats and the yacht floor, about 9,300 km and just over 7 months old. It has a full Xpel wrap and over 3 years of service. As you can imagine I would like to get a decent price for this car so I will almost certainly be selling it for more than 105,000; however, I'll be watching the market and doing some math around depreciation etc.

Incidentally, I'm guessing a US car for $89,000 US would be more like 105,000 after conversion and whatever mods would be required for Canadian driving. Not sure if any kind of import duty would be required and or GST paid on this.

I may be mistaken but I think in Alberta there would be no GST chargeable on a private sale?

 

[Canuck]

about 9,300 km and just over 7 months old.

I thought you'd have more km than that that seeing your posts about drives down here and to the Okanagan from Calgary.

I have 14k on mine in just over 7 months (got it March 7) and I thought that was low.

Did you ask the Vancouver store about your trade-in value? It's probably not worth it to you but for us in BC the savings on tax makes trade-ins much more appealing. I'd be interested in hearing their offer if you do ask.

 

[gpetti]

I thought you'd have more km than that that seeing your posts about drives down here and to the Okanagan from Calgary.

I have 14k on mine in just over 7 months (got it March 7) and I thought that was low.

Did you ask the Vancouver store about your trade-in value? It's probably not worth it to you but for us in BC the savings on tax makes trade-ins much more appealing. I'd be interested in hearing their offer if you do ask.

I have a pretty short commute and I've been away a fair bit in the 7 months. I only did 1 trip to Summerland and 1 trip to Edmonton so far.
The quote I got was from Vancouver I believe but they passed it on to "trade-in experts". They made it clear that this was pretty firm. They also pointed out that I would save on tax as I only pay on the delta; however, as my tax is only 5% it only amounts to about 5,000 dollars savings. They suggested that I should sell privately and seemed somewhat embarrassed with the offer. It occurs to me that everyone posting their low Tesla offers probably doesn't help resale values but I already posted my offer in another thread. Basically they offered me $105,000 and pointed out that this was effectively $110,000 with the tax savings. That is 138,000 to 105,000 for a depreciation of $33,000 in 7 months (not including money invested in Xpel etc.). They overestimated my KMs to 11,000 as they projected my usage until December (though using 7 months which only goes to September) but they said it didn't make much difference. I guess depreciation in the first year is probably not linear so it can't easily be extrapolated to compare with the Tesla lease guarantee over 3 years but I'm pretty sure Tesla are bidding well low of Elon's suggested (guaranteed?) depreciation for the vehicles. I guess they have effectively created a depression in the Tesla market which might iron out over time. Curse my impatient and frivolous nature!

 

[sitter_k]

There is also a 6% import tax on teslas.

 

[hingisfan]

The Model S cannot be imported into Canada from the US.

Regarding tax on used vehicles...In Ontario, don't we pay taxes when we transfer the ownership over to our name??? Or did the earlier poster mean, as a seller, you would not be recouping the taxes?

 

[Jaff]

So regardless, the "effect on the consumer marketplace" is the same as if importation is not allowed...thus very limited supply, for now.

Nope, the Model S is on the eligible list, with a note that says you can't do it because Tesla doesn't have the capacity to handle it... so basically Tesla (not the government) is blocking the import of used Model S in to Canada right now

This pisses me off because they claim to be "different", and yet use the same protectionist market garbage that all the other car manufacturers use to maintain their US/Canada price difference (even if smaller than most)

 

[green1]

My point being that tesla is the bad guy here, they are artificially limiting the used market in Canada. Presumably to drive new sales (that's the reason all the other manufacturers play these games, but tesla was supposed to be different)

 

[Canuck]

My point being that tesla is the bad guy here, they are artificially limiting the used market in Canada. Presumably to drive new sales (that's the reason all the other manufacturers play these games, but tesla was supposed to be different)

I'm not prepared to be that cynical. We have car dealers who focus on just importing certain vehicles and then reselling them in Canada, like this one in BC who does this with the Nissan Leaf:

Wholesale car,truck and boats Victoria BC -

This guy sells a lot of US Leafs in Canada (because of the price difference) and you can bet similar business would pop up if Teslas could be imported. That means our one small service center would have to do the modification required, and also service these vehicles under warranty and after. It's quite different with a Leaf where there are Nissan service centers all over BC. I don't want to be told I can't get a service appointment for 3 weeks because some business has booked them out with 20 used Teslas they just imported. I agree when Tesla says:

Note-2: Tesla Motors has informed Transport Canada that Tesla service centers are currently not in a position to support the substantial modifications required to bring U.S.Model S vehicles into compliance with Canadian requirements.

I view "substantial" as a relative term given their one small service center.

 

[Jaff]

Also, in fairness to Tesla, when a conventional auto maker comes out with a brand new model (for sale in both countries), how long does it normally take before it is allowed to be imported from the U. S. To Canada?...bet it doesn't happen immediately...

 

[Doug_G]

My point being that tesla is the bad guy here, they are artificially limiting the used market in Canada. Presumably to drive new sales (that's the reason all the other manufacturers play these games, but tesla was supposed to be different)

I think the real issue is that the service centers are extremely busy already.

 

[green1]

Note that Tesla also denied import of the Roadster, until they stopped selling them new, then suddenly it was no problem. That pretty much precludes anything but profit motive as being the reason in that case... why should we suspect different for the Model S?

 

[Doug_G]

AFAIK it's always been difficult to get Tesla to support importing a Roadster, and it still is. It's only been done on occasion. Right now the parts situation is probably a big impediment, as well as the fact that the service centers are very busy.

 

[SFOTurtle]

No one said there was any "price gouging" taking place. I did use the word "gouge" which, used in this context, means "overcharge":

"gouge
verb

• 1.make (a groove, hole, or indentation) with or as if with a gouge.
  "the channel had been gouged out by the ebbing water"
• 2.NORTH AMERICAN
  overcharge; swindle.
  "the airline ends up gouging the very passengers it is supposed to assist"
  definition of gouge - Google Search

In my opinion, $149,000 FIRM, as stated in the ad, is overcharging for this vehicle (as well as the prices for the other vehicles I linked to):
2014 Tesla Model S - $149000 - http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/cto/4677018531.html

Of course, no one is forcing anyone to buy at these prices and obviously there are alternatives. That's beside the point, as is "price gouging" which is a completely different issue: Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like we're just debating semantics. I still don't think anyone is being "gouged" here. If someone is "overcharged" something, no one says "gouge" if that is done by accident. Instead, there is a clear suggestion that this was intentional overcharging (and the consumer was forced to or did pay the overcharge), and that something wasn't fair or above board in the transaction and one side of the transaction had more bargaining power. Gouging, at least here in the US, has connotations of improper conduct by taking advantage of someone. Like if I were to run low on a charge on a road trip and the only option was to charge at a KOA campground and they demanded $25 to charge for 20-30 minutes just so I could get enough charge to make it to the next Supercharger. That is gouging.

Here, there's no real evidence that no one is actually being overcharged anything. There's plenty of information for people to make an informed decision, and plenty of other options other than to buy, and so far not much (if any) evidence than anyone is actually paying any of these inflated asking prices. Yes, the would be sellers are asking what many of us on this forum thinks is "too much," but too much is in reference to what the prospective buyer could get a brand new Tesla if they waited a couple months. Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty silly to ask for more $$ for a used Tesla than someone would pay for a brand new, custom ordered car, but I have no moral or ethical criticism. I just think it's very unlikely to result in a successful transaction for the seller.