I agree with everyone else, reserve now, there's really no downside to doing that, it's refundable if you change your mind or the reviews really suck, and you're not locking yourself into a spec for a long time. I put down my $5k more or less the day after watching ROTEC, and have been all over this forum since!
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It's a bit off-topic but, um, "Jerry started it."
For desktop, I totally agree. For mobile devices, the last dimension competes directly with the first 3.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I am a Prius and Hybrid Escalde owner.
I was in the Volt message boards about to buy one when I heard of Tesla.
I immediately saw how stupid I was and decided to get the $50k Model S.
But after thinking about it, now I'm getting the Performance Model S.
I.e. I understand COMPLETELY how you feel.
What the hell...you only live once.
I was in the Volt message boards about to buy one when I heard of Tesla.
I immediately saw how stupid I was and decided to get the $50k Model S.
But after thinking about it, now I'm getting the Performance Model S.
I.e. I understand COMPLETELY how you feel.
What the hell...you only live once.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
gkalexdc
Member
If a moderator could help 0r someone could do a couple of quik links on this post to two threads that helped me decide, i am sure it will help everyone on this thread! The two threads were "reasons to upgrade from 40 to 60kWh" and another thread I started about Cost/Degradation of the different packs. If i could do the advanced work to get that info here I would , but alas i cannot:cursing:
I too have gone throughbthe gammut of this decision, and finally just built the car of my future, and figured that I was NOT going to have a city commuter car like my Leaf was! I want advanced electric driving! The Leaf was my "training wheels" and now I know how to ride this bike! The fact that we even have the availability to up the range, and that we can commute between Cities, made up my mind, and I will pay for it over time and enjoy this tech, and so I am buying a Model S Performance and can always sell it for more because it is MORE. If I bought an old Lincoln Continental , the convertible would be more when it was new, and I would get a very good premium for it when it was in resale. My opinion, and I hope someone can attach those links I spoke of.
I too have gone throughbthe gammut of this decision, and finally just built the car of my future, and figured that I was NOT going to have a city commuter car like my Leaf was! I want advanced electric driving! The Leaf was my "training wheels" and now I know how to ride this bike! The fact that we even have the availability to up the range, and that we can commute between Cities, made up my mind, and I will pay for it over time and enjoy this tech, and so I am buying a Model S Performance and can always sell it for more because it is MORE. If I bought an old Lincoln Continental , the convertible would be more when it was new, and I would get a very good premium for it when it was in resale. My opinion, and I hope someone can attach those links I spoke of.
Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
To make the decision even more difficult, ask yourself is it better to have a bare bones 60kWh or a loaded 40? Notice how tech + leather+ air suspension+paint +pano roof +sound (or paint armor) is just under $10k, or the price of the bigger battery. If you have limited money, where would you put it? Things that you would use and enjoy every day (the options) or something that opens up new horizons (literally) and gives you peace of mind about range and longevity? Not an easy answer.
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mklcolvin
#P-5058
I'm in the same boat, and I ended up deciding for both the 60kWh version, with everything except the Tech package. If I need to strip stuff out, I'll remove convenience options before reducing the battery size. I figure that I can always add things like the cargo cover, or use my iDevices with the standard stereo instead of the upgraded system. Although I did remember something about the ability to upgrade the battery in the future (possibly), I don't think that we can count on that.
The 160 mile range for the 40kWh is to be taken with a grain of salt.
The EPA value for the 85kWh is 265 miles, that is minus 12% from 300 miles @55mph. If you attribute EPA numbers not only for comparability but for an indication of everyday range, I would subtract some 10% from the 160 miles, giving 144 miles "real world".
We know that Model S has Standard and Range mode, too, the first uses just 80% of pack capacity. I arrive at 115 miles.
If you plan to keep your Model S for 5-10 years, you should accommodate for some battery degradation and still have a usable car. So let's say 80% after 5 years which is cautious. Whoops, already below the hundreds: 92 miles.
The new EPA 5 cycle test includes high and low temperatures. I just can't find if A/C usage is added to maintain battery temp or for creature comfort. If you plan to use Model S in hot climate, subtract the 15-25% impact posted earlier in this thread. Now I get 69-78 miles.
If your everyday driving distance between charging stops is just under 70 miles, and your occasional (monthly) trip in range mode and with reduced A/C usage is no more than 90 miles, you should be OK with the 40kWh pack.
So far the economical considerations. Many LEAF owners bought that car just to cover distances in that range. Their experiences don't make me comfortable with that close a range to spare.
Well the heck, you have the chance and the means to be part of a revolution! The next EV will be better but you cannot see a movie twice "for the first time"! So go for the 60.
The EPA value for the 85kWh is 265 miles, that is minus 12% from 300 miles @55mph. If you attribute EPA numbers not only for comparability but for an indication of everyday range, I would subtract some 10% from the 160 miles, giving 144 miles "real world".
We know that Model S has Standard and Range mode, too, the first uses just 80% of pack capacity. I arrive at 115 miles.
If you plan to keep your Model S for 5-10 years, you should accommodate for some battery degradation and still have a usable car. So let's say 80% after 5 years which is cautious. Whoops, already below the hundreds: 92 miles.
The new EPA 5 cycle test includes high and low temperatures. I just can't find if A/C usage is added to maintain battery temp or for creature comfort. If you plan to use Model S in hot climate, subtract the 15-25% impact posted earlier in this thread. Now I get 69-78 miles.
If your everyday driving distance between charging stops is just under 70 miles, and your occasional (monthly) trip in range mode and with reduced A/C usage is no more than 90 miles, you should be OK with the 40kWh pack.
So far the economical considerations. Many LEAF owners bought that car just to cover distances in that range. Their experiences don't make me comfortable with that close a range to spare.
Well the heck, you have the chance and the means to be part of a revolution! The next EV will be better but you cannot see a movie twice "for the first time"! So go for the 60.
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
I had always planned on buying the 40, as even it stretches my budget. My thinking as late is "if I am going to stretch the budget any way, whats another year on the loan, lets go for the 60" <insert justification here> A 40 kWh Model with with Blue paint, Grey leather, Premium Sound, and the pano roof is not THAT much cheaper than a black, cloth seated, 60, right? </ justification>
> Is anyone else having trouble deciding between 40kWh and 60kWh? I am going to reserve in November, . . .
First thread this newbie has seen that uses the term 'financing'. Nice to be back in the real world facing real choices! You don't say how far Austin is, but *surely* Austin will offer recharging at ideal locations, no?? What, being the 'Boulder of the south', or vise-versa. Once you can decide that, you are now a good candidate for a Leaf based on your modest mileage requirements. IOW you could be enjoying a BEV tomorrow and for the next year for presumably less money. I saw a Leaf recently at the dealers; its a snazzy car. To me, just about all new cars seem snazzy, or else they are cute bugs. With your enviable demographic you should consider the value of instant gratification. And maybe trade up to a super-snazzy S model in the future.
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First thread this newbie has seen that uses the term 'financing'. Nice to be back in the real world facing real choices! You don't say how far Austin is, but *surely* Austin will offer recharging at ideal locations, no?? What, being the 'Boulder of the south', or vise-versa. Once you can decide that, you are now a good candidate for a Leaf based on your modest mileage requirements. IOW you could be enjoying a BEV tomorrow and for the next year for presumably less money. I saw a Leaf recently at the dealers; its a snazzy car. To me, just about all new cars seem snazzy, or else they are cute bugs. With your enviable demographic you should consider the value of instant gratification. And maybe trade up to a super-snazzy S model in the future.
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If it might help you in your decision making, comparing the relative values between a larger battery and paint/leather/sound/pano options for many people is a comparison between practical and aesthetic values--visual, tactile, audible. There are good arguments in favor of both. Many of the folks in these forums have enough money to go for both. Those of us who may not need to consider carefully. From my personal perspective putting money towards a bigger battery clearly trumps putting money towards largely aesthetic options. The aesthetic differences between a fully loaded car and a basic car are relatively small (and probably unnoticeable to most people) whereas the range differences between a larger battery car and a smaller battery car are relatively large (and easily noticeable to most people).
The Leaf is a good car but not for someone that lives 75 miles away about with all highway driving at 70mph avg.
Austin does have some chargers but it isn't a good as you think they would be and they are almost all J1772 30A chargers as far as I know.
Austin does have some chargers but it isn't a good as you think they would be and they are almost all J1772 30A chargers as far as I know.
Do yourselves a favor and forget about 40 kWh option.
It is/will be there so Tesla Motors can list starting price under $50k which is a very strong psyhological markup. Over 50k is very expensive, under 50k is just expensive.
Having 100 mile range in a 7 seater luxury sedan is embarrassing. Trim the options, up the kWh!
It is/will be there so Tesla Motors can list starting price under $50k which is a very strong psyhological markup. Over 50k is very expensive, under 50k is just expensive.
Having 100 mile range in a 7 seater luxury sedan is embarrassing. Trim the options, up the kWh!
I look at it this way. My family needs only 40kWh if we keep another car since trips over 200Miles over a day are common (about 20/year). So moving to 60kWh satisfies the need for another car by only adding 10K. By not keeping/buying another car the math works out in the favor of a larger battery. I estimate we'll put about 22K miles/year over the next 8 years so I am concerned about going out of warranty in 5+ years so I am considering 85kWh.
The flip side we could get a 40kWh battery and use rental cars or services like Zipcar, but the extra hassle and reduced warranty help push us toward the 60kWh option.
The flip side we could get a 40kWh battery and use rental cars or services like Zipcar, but the extra hassle and reduced warranty help push us toward the 60kWh option.
I am going to vote for the 40kWh. But the 60kWh is BETTER, but not worth the cost to ME. That being said I still haven't ruled out the 60kWh pack for myself, but I expect I will go 40kWh because the $10k isn't really worth a whole lot.
I have a lot of days (about 1 a week) in the 80-90 mile range. The rest of the week I am around 60 miles a day. The 40kWh pack can do these no problem. Even if it loses 20% of its capacity it should still be able to make the longer days (but with more conservative driving). If I travel more than 100 miles in a single day I more than likely have traveled OVER 250 miles. So other than range 8 years from now, after battery degradation, the 40kWh does EVERYTHING that the 60kWh pack could. That is my case.
Granted I can think of a lot of trips the 60kWh pack could do, that the 40kWh couldn't do. But in my reality they just don't happen. For $10k I can rent a lot of cars on the heavy days.
I also am fully expecting to have to purchase a replacement battery for my car. I will probably at that point want the biggest and best available. I am hoping for 8 years and about 150,000 miles before I have to do so. But 5 years, and 100,000 miles is what I am counting on. I know as the battery degrades my range will go down. But I don't know how long my commute will be (I have spent 5 years at my current job, and they have moved offices twice). I could change jobs. I could move, or my office move. I know I drive a LOT now, so I probably won't drive MORE.
I think you should buy the smallest battery you can, while still covering > 95% of your driving days, or buy the biggest battery there is.
SIDE NOTE: I have been logging my daily travel distance since January. I have one driving day where I outstripped the 40kWh pack, and even the 85kWh pack couldn't have done the driving (assuming there is no Supercharger, or 20kW charger, in a town of about 300 in rural Georgia).
I have a lot of days (about 1 a week) in the 80-90 mile range. The rest of the week I am around 60 miles a day. The 40kWh pack can do these no problem. Even if it loses 20% of its capacity it should still be able to make the longer days (but with more conservative driving). If I travel more than 100 miles in a single day I more than likely have traveled OVER 250 miles. So other than range 8 years from now, after battery degradation, the 40kWh does EVERYTHING that the 60kWh pack could. That is my case.
Granted I can think of a lot of trips the 60kWh pack could do, that the 40kWh couldn't do. But in my reality they just don't happen. For $10k I can rent a lot of cars on the heavy days.
I also am fully expecting to have to purchase a replacement battery for my car. I will probably at that point want the biggest and best available. I am hoping for 8 years and about 150,000 miles before I have to do so. But 5 years, and 100,000 miles is what I am counting on. I know as the battery degrades my range will go down. But I don't know how long my commute will be (I have spent 5 years at my current job, and they have moved offices twice). I could change jobs. I could move, or my office move. I know I drive a LOT now, so I probably won't drive MORE.
I think you should buy the smallest battery you can, while still covering > 95% of your driving days, or buy the biggest battery there is.
SIDE NOTE: I have been logging my daily travel distance since January. I have one driving day where I outstripped the 40kWh pack, and even the 85kWh pack couldn't have done the driving (assuming there is no Supercharger, or 20kW charger, in a town of about 300 in rural Georgia).
There are certainly good arguements for both. Personally I am getting most of the options. Blue paint, pan roof, sounds system, tech package, etc....
So it will end up being a 80k car for the 230 and a 70k car for the 160. The one trade off I really enjoy about this vehicle is that if I save 300 on gas a month, for the next 8 years... thats 30k off the cost of the vehicle. Not to mention lack of maintenance. So there are things to consider there too if I want to go higher. Insurance will be more then I am used to, I drive a v6 mustang after all, insurance isn't to high on that.
Never thought I would buy a car above 25k. I make enough to finance the car now, but that would be suicide if I lost my job.
I live in San Antonio by the way, Austin is 60 miles away. I HARDLY go there and when I do its to go out with friends. I feel like the over whelming feeling I am getting of why I want the 60kWh is strictly because I want to tell people that my car is capable of that. That is probably a bad reason.
So it will end up being a 80k car for the 230 and a 70k car for the 160. The one trade off I really enjoy about this vehicle is that if I save 300 on gas a month, for the next 8 years... thats 30k off the cost of the vehicle. Not to mention lack of maintenance. So there are things to consider there too if I want to go higher. Insurance will be more then I am used to, I drive a v6 mustang after all, insurance isn't to high on that.
Never thought I would buy a car above 25k. I make enough to finance the car now, but that would be suicide if I lost my job.
I live in San Antonio by the way, Austin is 60 miles away. I HARDLY go there and when I do its to go out with friends. I feel like the over whelming feeling I am getting of why I want the 60kWh is strictly because I want to tell people that my car is capable of that. That is probably a bad reason.
Not at all, whatever makes you happy. As I said in another post, my wife bought a Dodge Caliber purely on the basis of it's heated seats and rear-wiper (this was before my time!). Perfectly good reasons from her point of view, but perhaps not for most people with 2 eyes in their head
Ultimately you have to go with what you think is right, otherwise you'll almost certainly have regrets and not enjoy the experience as much as you should.
NigelM
Recovering Member
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Not at all, whatever makes you happy. As I said in another post, my wife bought a Dodge Caliber purely on the basis of it's heated seats and rear-wiper (this was before my time!). Perfectly good reasons from her point of view, but perhaps not for most people with 2 eyes in their head
Ultimately you have to go with what you think is right, otherwise you'll almost certainly have regrets and not enjoy the experience as much as you should.
I essentially don't want this scenario to happen:
Dude/Lady: "What kind of car is that?"
Me: "It's a Tesla Model S, its all electric"
Dude/Lady: "Looks pretty nice, is that an LCD In your car? How far does it go?"
Me: "Well this one goes 160 miles..."
Dude/Lady: "I don't know if I could own a car like that, I need more mileage"
Essentially I want the extra miles as well so that I can preach the gospel of EV's. lol
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