-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Initial trailer pulling report - 90D and Airstream 22ft Bambi Sport
- Thread starter JimVandegriff
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Model X
Dry tongue weight is 386 lbs. The GVWR is 4500 and dry weight is 3634, so it's reasonably balanced. I have 20 gallons of fresh water, which is on the tongue side of the axle, and empty grey and black water tanks (on the aft side of the axle), so that actually accounts for 167 lbs and likely explains at least some of my issue.
Potential lesson: travel with an empty fresh tank to keep the tongue weight down.
Just a note on recent happenings with our trailer - it has been parked in our driveway for the last three months, and we had it plugged in to shore power for awhile, but we wanted to see how its solar panels would do with no assist. It has two 100w panels on the roof installed by Airstream at purchase. It has been raining steadily here for the last two weeks, and the trailer is parked on the north side of our house, but the solar panels are keeping the dual batteries we have charged to 12.5 amps. We are quite happy with that.
We are planning to head out on further adventures with the X and Airstream around April 1 for several months of PNW travel into Oregon, Washington, and BC. More to follow. I've been seeing a few pics of others with X's and trailers, and would love to either run into them on the road, or organize a get together at some point. Big thanks to ohmman for all the excellent experiments with his rig.
We are planning to head out on further adventures with the X and Airstream around April 1 for several months of PNW travel into Oregon, Washington, and BC. More to follow. I've been seeing a few pics of others with X's and trailers, and would love to either run into them on the road, or organize a get together at some point. Big thanks to ohmman for all the excellent experiments with his rig.
Jim,
You mention that you have dual batteries. The Sport 22 comes with a single Group 24, so I'm assuming you upgraded. Did you just double the Group 24, or did you go another route? Did you mount the additional battery on the tongue? If so, don't forget that adds even more to your tongue weight.
You mention that you have dual batteries. The Sport 22 comes with a single Group 24, so I'm assuming you upgraded. Did you just double the Group 24, or did you go another route? Did you mount the additional battery on the tongue? If so, don't forget that adds even more to your tongue weight.
Look what I ran across in the Spring 2017 issue of Airstream Life, which just arrived today. 
Hope you don't mind me posting, @JimVandegriff!
Hope you don't mind me posting, @JimVandegriff!
Great to see! I'm glad others wrote in as well. I'm hoping to see pics of ohmman's rig in the mag soon with some of his speculations on drag. We are planning a 4+ month trip to Michigan in the summer. My niece is staying in the Airstream at the moment but our X is in Rocklin getting its yearly maintenance. It should return next week, and then we will be heading to Oregon for a short period before the big trip. I'm really looking forward to getting on the road.Look what I ran across in the Spring 2017 issue of Airstream Life, which just arrived today.
View attachment 215376
As I'm sure you can imagine, I broke out in the sweats when I saw that the other guy is towing a 2016 International 23D with a tongue weight of 720 lbs and a GVWR of 6000 lbs!
There's a good chance I won't sleep tonight.
I was shocked to read that too! I was about to look up the weight ratings for that particular Airstream. Maybe Tesla is being conservative in its ratings. Remember when the rumor was that the X would tow up to 10,000 lbs? Well, I sure hope it works well for Stephan. Maybe he will write in here with his findings. My calculations are that 475 Wh/km equals 766 Wh/m (475/.62 = 766). That would give a max range of 90 -100 miles I'd guess.
We had an interesting conversation with a service tech in Rocklin about tongue weight the other day. (You were on my mind, ohmman.) His take was that it was the total weight pulled that was most important, not tongue weight. I'm still trying to figure this all out, but boy, that 6000 lbs and 720 lbs tongue weight seems on or over the edge. Hoping not though!
Last edited:
(Disclaimer: I don't own a trailer and have never towed anything, planning to next year) I don't think the Tesla Service Center personnel are likely to have enough Tesla towing experience to make qualified statements about what the X can and cannot tow beyond what Tesla states on the X configuration page. And certainly tongue weight is a critical factor?
I too was stunned to read that an X owner in The Netherlands was towing an Airstream of that size. While it is certainly possible that Tesla's trailer GVWR and tongue weight recommendations are conservative, what Stefan Wijnsema is doing seems risky, and if it causes any problems with his X Tesla could disclaim responsibility because he has violated Tesla's specific recommendations.
Jim, thanks for your excellent letter to Airstream Life, glad it got published!
For what it's worth, Tesla has a very broad statement in the owner's manual about this:
Model X Manual said:
Yep, that's pretty broad. But if one is towing a trailer of no more than 5,000 lbs and no more than 500 lbs tongue weight and the hitch is properly secured, if a problem develops with the X hitch while the car is under warranty one would have a solid case for an in-warranty repair to be made.
So here's a tongue weight question: how low a tongue weight is too low when towing with an X?
So here's a tongue weight question: how low a tongue weight is too low when towing with an X?
It's more about the trailer than it is the tow vehicle. The normally quoted number is 10-15% of the trailer weight should be on the tongue. It's necessary for stability. Too much, and the front wheels on the tow vehicle aren't loaded enough, which can cause steering issues. Too little and the trailer will have a tendency to sway and become unstable.
A note about this - the tongue weight limitation is from Bosal, and as I mentioned in another thread, is measured at 8" from the hitch pin. Bosal built and specified the receiver, so their published limits are not to be taken lightly. I don't think the service tech is in a position to speak about Bosal's internal engineering.
It may be that the X can hold quite a bit more with a custom receiver, such as the ones that Can-Am RV builds for their vehicles. However, using the stock Bosal receiver means listening to what Bosal says... which is 500# at 8" from the hitch pin, max.
Thanks, excellent info. The trailer I plan to tow next year will be about 2,000 lbs loaded so that means a tongue weight of 200 - 300 lbs.
@JimVandegriff what is your tongue weight?
Ah, the great unknown! I don't have a clue. We did manage to stop on one of those roadside weight stations during the trip, and got a total weight of the trailer of about 4150 lbs (loaded), but we have never weighed the tongue. I just started looking at youtube videos about measuring tongue weight, and if I can do it easily, I will. Any clues about measuring? Thanks, Jim PS My wife just reminded me that we are going to take our trailer in to have its wheel bearings repacked before our next trip and will have the service center weigh the tongue weight for us if they can.
Last edited:
It is quite easy. You should weigh it loaded as you would normally load the trailer.
There are two quick ways. The first is the easiest, and the one I chose, which is to buy a tongue scale. They're not terribly expensive at about $150, and could save you a lot more than that in vehicle or trailer damage. The other way is much cheaper, and that's to use a lever and a bathroom scale (scroll down midway).
As your online cohort, and someone who respects what you've done with the X and the Airstream, I would urge you to validate your loaded tongue weight. I say this because my rig, which is nearly identical to yours, showed 500# at 12" from the pin - a 50% overload - when lightly loaded. As I've detailed in the weight distribution thread, there are caveats with our Equalizer hitches, but they don't let us off the hook in this regard.
Also, if you're in the area, I'd be happy to help.
Minor addendum - we towed the trailer to our local RV repair this morning and had the trailer's wheel bearings packed for the upcoming season. We traveled 26.5 miles in each direction with the trailer and averaged 587 wh/m over the combined distances among the rolling hills of northern Humboldt county (at 51 mph in the rain). It was fun to be pulling the trailer again, and also to realize how much better we are at backing up and parking than we once were. Looking forward to a trip up the Oregon coast soon. Jim
I realize that this isn't very relevant, but I also didn't want to start a whole new thread.
Was snowboarding in the middle of nowhere last week (north of Quebec City) for March Break, and I ran into the Tesla caravan. What luck!
Not sure how they made it, since the nearest SuperCharger (Drummondville) is 200km (124 miles) away. I struggled a little with that distance in the cold (towing a tray full of snowboards), so I imagine they must have either gone very slow or used other chargers along the way.
Tesla spent 3 days at the resort trying to drum-up business, but I think most people were more interested in the snow.
Was snowboarding in the middle of nowhere last week (north of Quebec City) for March Break, and I ran into the Tesla caravan. What luck!
Not sure how they made it, since the nearest SuperCharger (Drummondville) is 200km (124 miles) away. I struggled a little with that distance in the cold (towing a tray full of snowboards), so I imagine they must have either gone very slow or used other chargers along the way.
Tesla spent 3 days at the resort trying to drum-up business, but I think most people were more interested in the snow.
Hello Mr. Vandegriff.
First, as others have stated-thank you so much for all of your postings! I have ambitions to help out the forums in the same way, but I am new to them.
I purchased a Model X 100D at the end of June. On the first trip, I "tested out" pulling a small utility trailer a couple of hundred miles. This only weighed about 2500 lbs max, and did not have brakes. I was pleased with the ease of towing, but also taken aback by the reduction in range. I also went through the Tehachapi area from Buttonwillow to Mojave, but didn't stop in Mojave because I wanted to test my max range (home was further South). I made it about 125 miles with maybe 10 miles at the end.
A month or so later, I rented an Airstream Sport 16'. This was the second Airstream rental (I first rented a 22' Sport, 2017, but towed it with my Porsche Cayenne S). A couple of data points and information I learned:
-the 16'Sport is a wider trailer than the 22' (8' vice 7') and I think that ends up equating to more frontal area and drag, so...if they had been the same weight as loaded, I think the 16' would get worse range.
-I also encountered the LED lights issue-the rental place had no experience with Tesla so I was on my own. What I found, though, was that during the night the car recognized the trailer with LED lights. In the day it didn't. I found that when I simply turned on the parking lights manually (which, again being all LED doesn't use much energy)-the Model X does recognize the lights and thus trailer mode is fine and no red colored symbol. I found that this was an easy compromise and really just makes me more visible in the day-while not requiring any adapter or the possible problems with the adapters coming apart.
-I did not find the range estimation in the vehicle to be very accurate. Towed from San Diego up to Paso Robles and back, so there were only a couple inclines, but they did exist. As you state, planning is vitally important. And I use the Tesla site, etc to see where all currently open Superchargers are, and a lot of iterations with Maps or Google maps, planning distances and stops. A great planning tool, which I got before I even took delivery of the car, is the Digital Auto Guides "EV Trip Optimizer for Tesla". Really the company should provide something like this. It works great on iPad. It can show all the superchargers and plan out a route quickly. It calculates state of charge on arrivals, and you can input your vehicle, the speed you plan on traveling, as well as payload and "Cabin" values, different origin states of charge, and desired reserves at destination as well as power factor.
Now, I did not get good numbers just opening this and planning my first trip, but I iterated some values while towing. I changed the payload and cabin numbers until I basically made the program spit out a range calculation that was "correct"-i.e. it was what a segment I drove ACTUALLY yielded with that trailer in tow. Oddly, the Power Factor is supposed to be where you input anticipating using more power (for example when towing a trailer) BUT, it just didn't really work well. "Cabin" is supposed to be the climate control temperature setting you anticipate using during the trip. You can put in "0" if you anticipate not using the A/C for instance.
For whatever reason, I can not get the program to give reasonable numbers using even the highest "Power Factor" of 6.0, but by adjusting the Cabin value, you can essentially make the program give a realistic estimation of range values for planning. This will be different for different trailers of course, but when I use a Cabin value of 300, this program does a greta job of calculating states of charge and needs for supercharger stops on any given route. I do not know of another way to do this planning, other than manually or sitting in the vehicle with trip planner (which still does not model the consumption rate correctly, and you can't tell it ahead of time what factor to use).
It isn't an aerodynamic model, and it isn't a terrain-smart model, but by tricking it a little, you can make the program do a good job of trip planning for charging. This might be interesting (and is a free app, with a couple of $2 pro options) for readers who want to play with possible trips and this vehicle in a towing role. I will update a good "Cabin Value" from empirical data once I have towed a heavier trailer a few segments.
NEXT: I just purchased an Airstream 20' Flying Cloud. It is heavier than the 22' Sport, but has a GVW of 5000 (which my X "should" be fine with-at least as advertised). I will be towing it from Portland to Los Angeles next month, so....my real first test is this:
Can the Model X tow a 5kGVW trailer on this route using the Supercharger network only?
The longest leg is Eugene to Grants Pass at 138 miles. (until they open the Roseburg Supercharger). I am doubtful that I can make this leg at 55MPH. My backup plan is to stop in Roseburg and use a level 2 charger of some brand to plus up.
I will post results of this experiment, but essentially, I want to show whether the advertised car, with largest battery, can actually tow the advertised weight on the Supercharger network.
-Yes, it will be inconvenient, and I plan to unhitch for most of the stops, as I did with the 16' I rented.
-I will post places that are possible "leave it hitched" stops (I know Buttonwillow CA is one, as you can pull adjacent to the superchargers on the side where there is a drive through, still leaving room for traffic to get by, and not taking any supercharger spaces.)
If anyone is seeking specific data in a configuration like this, I will try to capture it on this trip.
First, as others have stated-thank you so much for all of your postings! I have ambitions to help out the forums in the same way, but I am new to them.
I purchased a Model X 100D at the end of June. On the first trip, I "tested out" pulling a small utility trailer a couple of hundred miles. This only weighed about 2500 lbs max, and did not have brakes. I was pleased with the ease of towing, but also taken aback by the reduction in range. I also went through the Tehachapi area from Buttonwillow to Mojave, but didn't stop in Mojave because I wanted to test my max range (home was further South). I made it about 125 miles with maybe 10 miles at the end.
A month or so later, I rented an Airstream Sport 16'. This was the second Airstream rental (I first rented a 22' Sport, 2017, but towed it with my Porsche Cayenne S). A couple of data points and information I learned:
-the 16'Sport is a wider trailer than the 22' (8' vice 7') and I think that ends up equating to more frontal area and drag, so...if they had been the same weight as loaded, I think the 16' would get worse range.
-I also encountered the LED lights issue-the rental place had no experience with Tesla so I was on my own. What I found, though, was that during the night the car recognized the trailer with LED lights. In the day it didn't. I found that when I simply turned on the parking lights manually (which, again being all LED doesn't use much energy)-the Model X does recognize the lights and thus trailer mode is fine and no red colored symbol. I found that this was an easy compromise and really just makes me more visible in the day-while not requiring any adapter or the possible problems with the adapters coming apart.
-I did not find the range estimation in the vehicle to be very accurate. Towed from San Diego up to Paso Robles and back, so there were only a couple inclines, but they did exist. As you state, planning is vitally important. And I use the Tesla site, etc to see where all currently open Superchargers are, and a lot of iterations with Maps or Google maps, planning distances and stops. A great planning tool, which I got before I even took delivery of the car, is the Digital Auto Guides "EV Trip Optimizer for Tesla". Really the company should provide something like this. It works great on iPad. It can show all the superchargers and plan out a route quickly. It calculates state of charge on arrivals, and you can input your vehicle, the speed you plan on traveling, as well as payload and "Cabin" values, different origin states of charge, and desired reserves at destination as well as power factor.
Now, I did not get good numbers just opening this and planning my first trip, but I iterated some values while towing. I changed the payload and cabin numbers until I basically made the program spit out a range calculation that was "correct"-i.e. it was what a segment I drove ACTUALLY yielded with that trailer in tow. Oddly, the Power Factor is supposed to be where you input anticipating using more power (for example when towing a trailer) BUT, it just didn't really work well. "Cabin" is supposed to be the climate control temperature setting you anticipate using during the trip. You can put in "0" if you anticipate not using the A/C for instance.
For whatever reason, I can not get the program to give reasonable numbers using even the highest "Power Factor" of 6.0, but by adjusting the Cabin value, you can essentially make the program give a realistic estimation of range values for planning. This will be different for different trailers of course, but when I use a Cabin value of 300, this program does a greta job of calculating states of charge and needs for supercharger stops on any given route. I do not know of another way to do this planning, other than manually or sitting in the vehicle with trip planner (which still does not model the consumption rate correctly, and you can't tell it ahead of time what factor to use).
It isn't an aerodynamic model, and it isn't a terrain-smart model, but by tricking it a little, you can make the program do a good job of trip planning for charging. This might be interesting (and is a free app, with a couple of $2 pro options) for readers who want to play with possible trips and this vehicle in a towing role. I will update a good "Cabin Value" from empirical data once I have towed a heavier trailer a few segments.
NEXT: I just purchased an Airstream 20' Flying Cloud. It is heavier than the 22' Sport, but has a GVW of 5000 (which my X "should" be fine with-at least as advertised). I will be towing it from Portland to Los Angeles next month, so....my real first test is this:
Can the Model X tow a 5kGVW trailer on this route using the Supercharger network only?
The longest leg is Eugene to Grants Pass at 138 miles. (until they open the Roseburg Supercharger). I am doubtful that I can make this leg at 55MPH. My backup plan is to stop in Roseburg and use a level 2 charger of some brand to plus up.
I will post results of this experiment, but essentially, I want to show whether the advertised car, with largest battery, can actually tow the advertised weight on the Supercharger network.
-Yes, it will be inconvenient, and I plan to unhitch for most of the stops, as I did with the 16' I rented.
-I will post places that are possible "leave it hitched" stops (I know Buttonwillow CA is one, as you can pull adjacent to the superchargers on the side where there is a drive through, still leaving room for traffic to get by, and not taking any supercharger spaces.)
If anyone is seeking specific data in a configuration like this, I will try to capture it on this trip.
I forgot my main question: Has this post been addressed any further? I ordered an equalizer weight distribution hitch for WD as well as sway control (although I did not experience any issues with the 16'Sport I rented and it had only the factory hitch) - but do not know if you have had any negative issues using the WD hitch.
I know I will be planning on putting any weight far aft in the trailer because it starts with a high tongue weight. But I do not fully understand P90D's post above. If nothing else I know it is possible to adjust this hitch to essentially provide no WD, and use only as a Sway control, but I am wondering if I should just cancel the equalizer if in fact it can have a damaging effect. Does anyone have further information on this?
Similar threads
