I-Pace vs P3D

[cfttester]

I have not yet seen an I-Pace in person, but I for one look forward to seeing it and eventually driving it. I have no intention to buy one - but I certainly hope it is successful. Whether it will be successful or not...time will tell.

If the OP wants to buy an I-Pace (when they are actually available for sale) instead of a Tesla - at least he is getting an electric car and contributing to Tesla’s mission statement. Tesla may be the company responsible for dragging the industry (kicking and screaming in most cases) to actually starting to make some compelling EVs - but they can’t build the 70 million (!) cars a year that the world consumes. They need other auto manufacturers to get on board.

The OP asked why not an I-Pace and people have already given him many legitimate reasons. But it’s up to him to decide. Not sure if we need to beat the dead horse here or if there is really any info that hasn’t already been shared.

We should be careful not to get pulled into the “EVs should only be compared to other EVs” trap. We need large groups of people to start switching to EVs (remember 70M sold a year world wide and 98% of them are currently ICE).

So I’d imagine there would be better cars to compare the I-Pace to. Smaller ICE SUVs or crossovers, including Jag’s own E-Pace, Volvo XC40, BMW X-1, etc. I guess what I am saying (in a long round-about way!) is that likely the I-Pace will not appeal to many on here who own Teslas. And that’s fine.

We know what we like and we may feel that I-Pace just doesn’t measure up, is too heavy, old tech, not as good value for money, no Superchargers, etc, etc. That’s fine. Likely us Tesla owners are not the target market. But if we can encourage those who would otherwise buy a an ICE crossover to take a look at alternatives like the I-Pace (especially if they like that form factor but can’t wait for Model Y), then that is one less sale of an ICE and that’s good for us all.

Good post.
One thing you, probably, got wrong - I-Pace didn't strike me as an SUV/SAV at all. It's rather a tall sedan. In fact it's 1 inch lower then BMW i3

 

[Mobius484]

Was not a problem for Nissan Leaf when I bought it in 2011. Why do you assume the people, who are working in the dealerships are ignorant? They may be dishonest, but rarely ignorant.

Great! I'm not sure it's a plus at all.

False. I-Pace has over-the-air upgrade capability for the infotainment system. For the breaks, etc - I'd rather visit a service center.

Tesla is not exactly US made either. Rumors are it's near 50/50

Great! It would be easy to find it on the parking lot or your own neighborhood

U must live in California. Not being snarky. Sorry, Just don’t see many jaguars, mulch less Tesla’s round where I live, and it’s nice having my ranger come to me. I think the I pace will be a sweet ev.

 

[cfttester]

Jag has no experience with EVs. I doubt your reasoning.

Nissan didn't but I had no issues with them, VW did'n but I had no issues with the car too. BMW - same story except they were selling EVs for a couple of years by the time I've bought mine. Tesla - I'm not sure they have experience in SELLING cars or anything whatsoever. Making ... will see.

lack of necessity to visit a service center in a week after the car is delivered.
BS

IDK, 5 out of 5 among my friends and co-workers. Sorry, 4 out of 4. 5 was sent back because it was made in Feb and got bumper repainted (badly) and attempted to deliver in Sep.

 

[cfttester]

U must live in California.

Don't worry, if Tesla will deliver on promises, you will experience this problem too

 

[Gavyne]

Do us all a favor, since you had your mind made up already prior to posting, please go buy an I-PACE. Then, once you actually receive your car sometime in 2019, come back and post, let us know how it is. We'll be waiting.

Initially I thought you are actually interested in comparing the cars. But didn't take longer than 2 pages before I realized you had your mind set and you don't really care about the superior aspects of Model 3 over I-PACE. So, enjoy your I-PACE...whenever you do get it.

 

[cfttester]

Do us all a favor, since you had your mind made up already prior to posting, please go buy an I-PACE. Then, once you actually receive your car sometime in 2019, come back and post, let us know how it is. We'll be waiting.

Initially I thought you are actually interested in comparing the cars. But didn't take longer than 2 pages before I realized you had your mind set and you don't really care about the superior aspects of Model 3 over I-PACE. So, enjoy your I-PACE...whenever you do get it.

Please, do me a huge favor. Read my response #49 on page 3.

 

[Mobius484]

I feel better buying an American car. Not sure how those batteries in the I pace will hold up. Will 200 miles be ok in cold weather running errands? I agree with the above. Sounds like your buying an I pace, why ask a Tesla enthusiast forum for our opinion?

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Get the Jag. The British are known for their fine auto electrical systems.

 

[rachelhikes]

If the OP wants to buy an I-Pace (when they are actually available for sale) instead of a Tesla - at least he is getting an electric car and contributing to Tesla’s mission statement.

Exactly. Every EV on the streets is a win for Tesla, whether that EV is a Tesla or not.

 

[Mobius484]

Got cobalt? Tried to find emoji for bleeding child laboror but guess apple doesn’t have that. Glad Tesla is getting that down to minimal....

 

[rachelhikes]

I don't understand the reason for the long range driving.

If your intended usage for the car doesn't involve driving longer distances, then lucky you: you don't need as large and costly a battery.

Trying to determine whether one car is "better" than another isn't a useful exercise without knowing: better for what? If you want a more focused discussion, you should probably explain how you intend to use the car (passengers? cargo? off-road? destinations? etc.) and what sort of things you care about or don't care about.

I considered an I-Pace, but it was more money than I wanted to spend, lacked the range and charging infrastructure to support the drives I wanted to take, and I wasn't thrilled with its more traditional car control set-up (so many buttons and knobs...). The main thing that attracted me to the I-Pace (compared to the Model 3) was its higher ground clearance and resulting greater ability to handle bad dirt roads. Would have been great to have everything, but that wasn't an option. On balance, I'm super happy though with the Model 3; it's only been a week and a half, but so far it's been a joy to own.

 

[Roentgen]

Let me quote myself - "Ok, I’m not chasing Performance edition or even AWD, but if you are".
I have a reservation for a very basic LR for 50K. At this moment, Tesla needs just a little bit of effort to already made one to piss me off enough so I will spend extra 30K just to avoid buying Tesla.

Wait, wut?

Seriously, you'd spend 30K more to avoid buying a Tesla? Why are you here? Go spend your money. You don't want to hear anything that is said here.

You want something unique and different. You need to feel above the rest, pampered by superior interior quality, workmanship, and have your butt kissed by the Jag (or BMW) sales/service. And you're willing to pay 30K more for it. Go for it! DO NOT BUY A TESLA. It's not for everybody, and obviously not for you.

 

[Mobius484]

Wait a bit and get a lucid, they sound sweet!

 

[mcbarnet007]

I was there for the Ipace event and I currently own a P3D and P85D before that. I can see someone choosing a Ipace over Model 3 AWD if they value trational car luxury over driving dynamic and futuristic tech and interface. The interior material finish is better than Model 3. The seats are comfortable and offers lots of support for the sport upgrade seats. However, I still personally prefers Model 3 seat because of how comfortable it is. There are tons of options and colors for both interior and exterior to customize for your own personal taste. The air suspension and adjustable damper works very well. It drives like a sporty suv rather than a sports sedan. Back seats are very comfortable for 2 people and the trunk is decent sized. I can totally see this car appealing to people who wants to switch to EV but is hesitant to switch over to Model 3's futuristic interface.

However, for me and my brother (in their 30s) luxury means having the car do 95% of the highway driving for you, have superior handling and driving dynamic, and ability to take a trip to anywhere in the US without worrying too much about charging. Have a well thought out tablet like interface and very easy to use voice command. On top of that, V9 autopilot is already superior to AP1 and will only get better.

As I kept saying to my brother at the event that Ipace will sell very well for its specific target audience and that's a good thing. Tesla goal is not to be the only car manufacturer in the world but to accelerate the pace of sustainable transportation and having traditional car company coming out with desirable products is a great way to achieve that goal.

It is great that op is considering Ipace instead of another gasoline vehicle. Lets show him some support.

 

[cfttester]

Wait, wut?

Seriously, you'd spend 30K more to avoid buying a Tesla? Why are you here? Go spend your money. You don't want to hear anything that is said here.

You want something unique and different. You need to feel above the rest, pampered by superior interior quality, workmanship, and have your butt kissed by the Jag (or BMW) sales/service. And you're willing to pay 30K more for it. Go for it! DO NOT BUY A TESLA. It's not for everybody, and obviously not for you.

That’s some high quality fanboism.

 

[MXWing]

Part of the iPace purchasing experience is going to be playing grab ass games with the dealers that everyone seems to crave so much for the Model 3.

Right now, purchasing an iPace is like a Tesla given custom order is just MSRP. If there's a show room one, expect MSRP + $5,000 or $10,000 "market adjustment" bullshit or something.

I gotta decide:

1.) How much I want to pay?
a.) MSRP
b.) Wait and see so MSRP + market adjustment
c.) Try my luck with S+D and see how much I feel like haggling off.
2.) How hard to negotiate my trade in vehicle? Play psychological games so they can offer me more on my trade in expecting to molest me on the vehicle price.
3.) Negotiate over price of car.
a.) Costco deal? And Costco deal is not the same from dealer to dealer.
b.) Supplier discount? Am I partner with a vendor related to Jaguar?
c.) Truecar, Jaguar forums? What are they paying? Who's legit, who's bsing?
4.) Take hours to achieve a preliminary deal.
5.) Get countered by the manager which I won't budge from.
6.) Have the salesman pretend to be my friend aka good cop.
7.) Finally settle on the price I insisted on 6 hours ago.
8.) Get shoved to financing where I have to listen to and decline all the warranties and options they want to sell me.

yeah... I'm all ready to get up on this stuff - for a vehicle I can't drive more than 100 miles one way before I start getting antsy about the range.

Hard pass.

 

[cfttester]

I was there for the Ipace event and I currently own a P3D and P85D before that. I can see someone choosing a Ipace over Model 3 AWD if they value trational car luxury over driving dynamic and futuristic tech and interface. The interior material finish is better than Model 3. The seats are comfortable and offers lots of support for the sport upgrade seats. However, I still personally prefers Model 3 seat because of how comfortable it is. There are tons of options and colors for both interior and exterior to customize for your own personal taste. The air suspension and adjustable damper works very well. It drives like a sporty suv rather than a sports sedan. Back seats are very comfortable for 2 people and the trunk is decent sized. I can totally see this car appealing to people who wants to switch to EV but is hesitant to switch over to Model 3's futuristic interface.

However, for me and my brother (in their 30s) luxury means having the car do 95% of the highway driving for you, have superior handling and driving dynamic, and ability to take a trip to anywhere in the US without worrying too much about charging. Have a well thought out tablet like interface and very easy to use voice command. On top of that, V9 autopilot is already superior to AP1 and will only get better.

As I kept saying to my brother at the event that Ipace will sell very well for its specific target audience and that's a good thing. Tesla goal is not to be the only car manufacturer in the world but to accelerate the pace of sustainable transportation and having traditional car company coming out with desirable products is a great way to achieve that goal.

It is great that op is considering Ipace instead of another gasoline vehicle. Lets show him some support.

Great post. Thank you. Except I was driving EVs for over 7 years by now.

 

[thewishmaster]

Ok, I’m not chasing Performance edition or even AWD, but if you are, why I-Pace is not a viable option at almost similar price point?
Normal car with likely a better assembly quality, with bunch of options to customize, with a bunch of color options for just $600 plus . Even something like air suspension is an option.

Plenty of reasons to pick the Model 3, even if the fully loaded P3D costs a bit more than the base i-Pace.

Short range, much heavier weight, and the potentially worse charging network are dealbreakers for me. Battery/motor tech doesn't seem proven yet while Tesla has been engineering and re-engineering their drivetrains for some years now, so the drivetrain itself is a question mark. The i-Pace is contract-built by Magna Steyr, so it's unclear what long-term investment Jaguar has in the car (just my opinion, I do hope it proves successful and they invest in more EVs). Additionally, at this point I would rather deal with Tesla directly than go to another franchised dealership ever again.

 

[cfttester]

Part of the iPace purchasing experience is going to be playing grab ass games with the dealers that everyone seems to crave so much for the Model 3.

Right now, purchasing an iPace is like a Tesla given custom order is just MSRP. If there's a show room one, expect MSRP + $5,000 or $10,000 "market adjustment" bullshit or something.

I gotta decide:

1.) How much I want to pay?
a.) MSRP
b.) Wait and see so MSRP + market adjustment
c.) Try my luck with S+D and see how much I feel like haggling off.
2.) How hard to negotiate my trade in vehicle? Play psychological games so they can offer me more on my trade in expecting to molest me on the vehicle price.
3.) Negotiate over price of car.
a.) Costco deal? And Costco deal is not the same from dealer to dealer.
b.) Supplier discount? Am I partner with a vendor related to Jaguar?
c.) Truecar, Jaguar forums? What are they paying? Who's legit, who's bsing?
4.) Take hours to achieve a preliminary deal.
5.) Get countered by the manager which I won't budge from.
6.) Have the salesman pretend to be my friend aka good cop.
7.) Finally settle on the price I insisted on 6 hours ago.
8.) Get shoved to financing where I have to listen to and decline all the warranties and options they want to sell me.

yeah... I'm all ready to get up on this stuff - for a vehicle I can't drive more than 100 miles one way before I start getting antsy about the range.

Hard pass.

OK. I asked about markups because this is a deal-breaker for me too. In fact I was asking two questions:
1. Should I expect markups. Answer was either don't know or Jaguar is not allowing it.
2. Availability and delivery timeframe. Answer was Bay Area has enough allocation, I should expect February.

Generally, in my experience, for the cars that costs $40k and above the negotiation process is not really that aggressive as you described. It usually takes me about 20-30 minutes to settle around invoice + $500 on a custom order from factory.
Now try to negotiate with Tesla, you may get a $100 discount on supercharging off MSRP and a "new" car ("new - demo or service" in small font) made 7 month ago.
My personal experience - Tesla hires sales droids (OA they called now?) straight of a used car dealership.

P.S. 100 miles radius - a bit of BS

 

[cfttester]

Plenty of reasons to pick the Model 3, even if the fully loaded P3D costs a bit more than the base i-Pace.

Short range, much heavier weight, and the potentially worse charging network are dealbreakers for me. Battery/motor tech doesn't seem proven yet while Tesla has been engineering and re-engineering their drivetrains for some years now, so the drivetrain itself is a question mark. The i-Pace is contract-built by Magna Steyr, so it's unclear what long-term investment Jaguar has in the car (just my opinion, I do hope it proves successful and they invest in more EVs).

Agree Jag has a big question mark next to the battery and drivetrain.
On other hand Tesla has a huge question mark next to everything except battery and drivetrain.

Additionally, at this point I would rather deal with Tesla directly than go to another franchised dealership ever again.

My experience is quite opposite.