Hypothesis on why Tesla's Service is so poor

[holeydonut]

So I'm having a terrible time dealing with Tesla Service on a 2023 Model X. The location I'm at is Dublin, CA. The Model X forum doesn't seem to have any recent positive things to say about this place, and the rest of TMC seems to dislike Dublin as well.

The service ambassadors (the frontline folks) are basically fighting with one arm tied behind their backs; and it's clear they're doing the best they can. I don't think Tesla's boots-on-the-ground team (edit isn't) is the problem. These folks seem to be trying really hard for the most part.

It's got to be something higher up, and as much fun as it is to blame Elon for everything, there's probably something else going on that is worth exploring. So my hypothesis is that Tesla at some point in time has tried to re-energize their service centers as sales centers. It seems all the high-ups Tesla has installed are former retail folks; not former automotive folks.

I'm pretty sure TMC has strict rules on doxxing even with public information, so I won't name names. But, the regional manager for Tesla's Pacific Northwest is formerly from Nike and GAP Brands. The GM for the Dublin, CA location is formerly Louis Vuitton and J Crew. These folks have never worked at a service center or run post-sales support. They don't seem to have any background other than with retail sales and corporate site operations. Yes, GAP and LV are customer-facing for issues, but their #1 directive is generating sales. The stores are trendy, try to be inviting, and get people to buy.

Since vehicles aren't commodities that can be quickly swapped with a new unit if there's a defect, I think Tesla's own placed folks don't know how to properly execute the steps necessary to give a positive post-sale experience for automobiles. A BR store will stock garbage on the shelves because the QA is done by the manufacturer or distributor. If there's a poor yarn density or poorly fitting pattern, the stores aren't really the ones to give feeback to improve the product. But Tesla's could benefit from folks that understand post-sale service is high-touch and complex. They should be providing feedback when manufacturing is under-delivering on quality.

Anyway, just an observation while I sit through a 2 hour zoom meeting. Am I off base? Do you all think Tesla's service/physical locations are fine with retail-experienced (but not automotive-experienced) leaders?

PS, I'm not a scientist, so maybe I'm not using the word "hypothesis" correctly. Since this is a question I cannot test heh.

 

[fishy21]

$$$$$.

They own the SC (vs car dealerships that are owned by independent owners).

Plus, it’s all about driving the stock as high as possible. As Tesla enthusiasts say, you are buying the tech, not a car. And this car isn’t considered luxury. (Their words, not mine).

 

[cwerdna]

PS, I'm not a scientist, so maybe I'm not using the word "hypothesis" correctly. Since this is a question I cannot test heh.

It's better than using the word "theory" in the scientific method (This is the Difference Between a Hypothesis and a Theory) when sometimes the so-called "theories" are nothing other than something pulled out of thin air/someone's ass or from a nut job.

 

[BitJam]

So my hypothesis is that Tesla at some point in time has tried to re-energize their service centers as sales centers. It seems all the high-ups Tesla has installed are former retail folks; not former automotive folks.

I had a very good experience at the service center in El Paso, Texas. I was treated well, the service people were very competent, and I was kept informed about what was going on.

My guess is Tesla's exponential growth rate is at the heart of the problem. Less than a year ago Rob Maurer reported that Tesla VP, Drew Baglino, said the exponential growth was becoming really painful. Trying to expand 50% per year, year after year is tough. It doesn't matter how many really competent and motivated people you start out with. The wellsprings of new talent will eventually dry up and you will get expanding pockets of incompetence. This is probably why Elon goes on firing sprees.

I don't see any quick or easy solutions. The service situation won't get significantly better until either the growth rate tapers off or Tesla faces some real competition.

 

[P90D]

Service and quality don't sell cars, and service is not (yet) profitable, so Tesla puts as little as possible into these costs.
With the arrival of competitors in '23 thru '25, Tesla will be compelled to do more.
It takes time to ramp up service and initial quality, so the immediate answer to competitors is price discounting, which Tesla is cutting aggressively.
Of course discounting costs customer loyalty and loses return customers.
I think Tesla has a long term debt caused by severe discounting, but it's no stranger to debt.
Using the referral racket to influence the influencers racked up an enormous debt of free Roadsters owed to youtubers like @MKBHD.
I assume that debt is why the Roadster II "is not a priority" (according to Franz) for Tesla.
For now, the Tesla strategy is to turn a profit center, Superchargers, into a competitive differentiator.

 

[Gixx1300R]

In February 2018 Jon McNeil left Tesla. He was the president of global sales and service at Tesla. After his departure service went downhill. A year before (2017) the Model 3 was released. The service centers were not prepared for the flood of Model 3s that had major issues. That caused a negative cascade effect in service. too many cars with too many issues and the service centers cannot keep up.

 

[holeydonut]

In February 2018 Jon McNeil left Tesla. He was the president of global sales and service at Tesla. After his departure service went downhill. A year before (2017) the Model 3 was released. The service centers were not prepared for the flood of Model 3s that had major issues. That caused a negative cascade effect in service. too many cars with too many issues and the service centers cannot keep up.

Yeah, but I think the major issue is these centers are known to Tesla as "Stores and Galleries" instead of actual service centers. Hence why they're hiring former retail site managers to be the GMs. And the regional manager affecting these sites is also a retail expert. I feel like customers think of the physical locations as service centers because most customers are just buying online and using the physical location for charging and service/support.

For example, Peter Pan BMW here in Northern California has so much volume, they had to overflow service to a completely different facility than the primary showroom. And they each have their own GM running the separate strategic priorities of that location. Sales is all about client acquisition and conversion to a purchase. Service is about quality of support and keeping sentiment high.

I think Tesla does enough volume with such a huge number of vehicles that require service that they should set up optimized service locations and just push sales to new facilities. Let some retail brand expert push the merch and cars in a bad-azz way, but hire separate folks who excel in after-sales support.

I mean, the Sunnyvale, CA location that I took delivery won't even wash a brand new car any more. It doesn't help sell a car since the customer already paid lol. I guess Tesla just wants money and new sales. Customers who have already paid money are going to be SOL.

 

[ATPMSD]

I suggest the problem is straightforward, there are too few Service Centers for the number of cars sold. Tesla really needs to create a network of authorized service centers so customers do not have to take their car to the “dealer.” This could be a win-win-win for Tesla, automotive service shops and customers.

I think we can also help by not taking our cars to Tesla for standard things like tires, rotations, alignments, suspension work etc. When you owned an ICE car did you take your car to the dealer to perform such work? I didn’t.

 

[P90D]

I suggest the problem is straightforward, there are too few Service Centers for the number of cars sold. Tesla really needs to create a network of authorized service centers so customers do not have to take their car to the “dealer.” This could be a win-win-win for Tesla, automotive service shops and customers.

I think we can also help by not taking our cars to Tesla standard things like tires, rotations, alignments, suspension work etc. When you owned an ICE car did you take your car to the dealer to perform such work? I didn’t.

The simplest answer is often the correct answer; in this case, I'd say the conspicuously self-evident answer is Tesla is simply not investing in service.
Circa 2017, 2018 they took techs and service writers to work in back offices and coordinate mobile rangers. This "broke" the operations at the service centers. Over time, they lost key people who were disenfranchised and had the skills to move on with their career rather than suffer a "wal-mart-like" work environment where the employees were cajoled into working harder and longer hours, taking on multiple additional responsibilities and consistently told to minimize the "cost" of the customer coming in for warranty work such as to fix initial quality problems. Meanwhile the stock price soared and the outward image of Tesla just didn't sync with the policy and work practices inside the service centers. That disconnect puts the employee in an impossible position of being asked (required) to maintain the facade.

In 2018, the "customer beta" phase of the Model X was ending after a year or two on the road, so there was no long any interest in supporting customers with issues – everything about the X was known and each instance was just a cost to be minimized, with nothing new to learn, nothing to take back to R&D to improve the product.
As the 3 arrived, the Superchargers and the service centers were inundated with new users, with high expectations and sorely disappointed to find they had traded their Toyota/Lexus/Mercedes to find the quality and service issues were multiplied.
Tesla responded over time (years) and service appeared (to me) to be remarkably better in late 2019.
Now in 2023, two or threes years later, if anything, service has sunk back to the levels of apathy and resignation that could be seen in years prior.
There's only so much energy the individual can put into working in a broken system where the management focuses on cost as the only factor.

As for taking general work to third parties, that's what I think Tesla owners have resorted to doing as a workaround, but it's not the norm. The statistics have been the same for decades: new vehicle owners will go to the selling dealer to buy windshield wipers and fluid! : ) When a given manufacturer sees a loss of return business, they start selling prepaid service, which is now an almost standardized product that dealers will discount in competition with each other.

I used to own and operate an independent shop. We worked primarily on track cars, but serviced the customer's road cars as a courtesy and as a diversified source of revenue to keep the techs busy when performance car work slowed down seasonally. We'd have customers bring in their track car for an engine build, gearbox, suspension, safety gear, then mention they were taking their daily driver to the dealer for brakes or tires. I'd offer to source OEM parts and my work would not void warranty, while being 20% to 50% less expensive than the dealer (especially for tires and brakes.) Some would shrug if it off and not want to bother, others would realize "oh hell, the parts you're using are in Porsche factory boxes … I assumed you used generic parts." We kept a large room full of shelves of parts in inventory and a quick walk along the aisles was a great "sales" tool.

 

[xAgyex]

Everyone is on the money. I think Tesla is mostly concern about its bottom line and selling as many cars as possible. This has caused service folks to get overwhelmed and thus we are all experiencing poor service. When I first purchased my used MS85, I had 5 star service...I loved service and the folks so much I would give holiday cards (with extra large tip inside). Now a days, I am crying inside when I have to take my car in, and I have to initiate a lot of communication else its silence, and sometimes they start working on the wrong thing. I think at this point, we need more third party folks that can fix the normal stuff and then the high voltage stuff. I am very excited about Teslas magic doc, as this means the one reason for going with Tesla, might not be a big issue anymore. For example when you go to Europe you can buy what ever EV you want, and you can use the super chargers.

 

[Rmf1981]

Tesla service sucks. Bottom line. It has sucked for a long time. Some SCs are better than others, but the overall is that they suck. Like @xAgyex says - I cry a little every time I have to take one of my 2 Teslas in for service. It pains me. It's never a good experience.

• The Communication sucks. I don't want to deal with a nameless, faceless and UNACCOUNTABLE person via chat on a buggy app (my service messages take forever and sometimes fail to load).
• Having to fight you every time for a loaner car is ridiculous. I live 1.5hours from a SC. I can't give you my entire day or be without a car while you fix mine. Every other high-end car I have owned provided a loaner when servicing through the dealer.
• Ridiculous charges. Just yesterday had to argue with them assessing a $160 "diagnostic fee" for fixing my front control arms on the Model X. This is a known issue and one they're involves in active litigation over (class action pending). Mechanic got into the car, we didn't even make it out of the parking lot and he knew what it was. Heck, I knew what it was from watching videos on this website! Fortunately, armed with the knowledge this website gave me, I found that Tesla is repairing this known issue for parts cost and waives labor/diagnostic fees. But I had to ask for that.
• Car returned to me dirty. This is minor, but when I owned BMWs/Merc/Lexus/Caddy they came back to me after service with a quick vacuum and a wash. You seriously can't do this on a car that costs $80k+?

I love the cars. I hate the service. I'm with @xAgyex - we need 3rd party service badly.

When they open the superchargers, not sure what I'll do. Right now the ability to use the SC network is what keeps me in the Teslas. When that opens to everyone, the landscape will change a lot.

Tesla continues to ignore this part of their business at their own long term peril.

 

[electricar]

I had a very good experience at the service center in El Paso, Texas. I was treated well, the service people were very competent, and I was kept informed about what was going on.

My guess is Tesla's exponential growth rate is at the heart of the problem. Less than a year ago Rob Maurer reported that Tesla VP, Drew Baglino, said the exponential growth was becoming really painful. Trying to expand 50% per year, year after year is tough. It doesn't matter how many really competent and motivated people you start out with. The wellsprings of new talent will eventually dry up and you will get expanding pockets of incompetence. This is probably why Elon goes on firing sprees.

I don't see any quick or easy solutions. The service situation won't get significantly better until either the growth rate tapers off or Tesla faces some real competition.

My experience with the Tucson Sales/Service center has been very good. The two little problems with my car in 5 years have both been resolved by a mobile visit ( great tech ). I haven't missed the waiting area, lousy coffee and plastic pastries, service advisor upsell, or the juice stained loaner at all.

 

[holeydonut]

Tesla service sucks. Bottom line. It has sucked for a long time. Some SCs are better than others, but the overall is that they suck. Like @xAgyex says - I cry a little every time I have to take one of my 2 Teslas in for service. It pains me. It's never a good experience.

• The Communication sucks. I don't want to deal with a nameless, faceless and UNACCOUNTABLE person via chat on a buggy app (my service messages take forever and sometimes fail to load).
• Having to fight you every time for a loaner car is ridiculous. I live 1.5hours from a SC. I can't give you my entire day or be without a car while you fix mine. Every other high-end car I have owned provided a loaner when servicing through the dealer.
• Ridiculous charges. Just yesterday had to argue with them assessing a $160 "diagnostic fee" for fixing my front control arms on the Model X. This is a known issue and one they're involves in active litigation over (class action pending). Mechanic got into the car, we didn't even make it out of the parking lot and he knew what it was. Heck, I knew what it was from watching videos on this website! Fortunately, armed with the knowledge this website gave me, I found that Tesla is repairing this known issue for parts cost and waives labor/diagnostic fees. But I had to ask for that.
• Car returned to me dirty. This is minor, but when I owned BMWs/Merc/Lexus/Caddy they came back to me after service with a quick vacuum and a wash. You seriously can't do this on a car that costs $80k+?

I love the cars. I hate the service. I'm with @xAgyex - we need 3rd party service badly.

When they open the superchargers, not sure what I'll do. Right now the ability to use the SC network is what keeps me in the Teslas. When that opens to everyone, the landscape will change a lot.

Tesla continues to ignore this part of their business at their own long term peril.

Yeah and it seems Tesla is fine ignoring this part of their business since they put non-automotive-retail-experts in leadership positions. These folks focus on metrics like inventory turnover and revenue per square foot. They care less about service metrics and sentiment.

Ignore what people say, focus on what they do. Hiring revenue folks to run service means revenue is the priority.

 

[black knight 3]

So I'm having a terrible time dealing with Tesla Service on a 2023 Model X. The location I'm at is Dublin, CA. The Model X forum doesn't seem to have any recent positive things to say about this place, and the rest of TMC seems to dislike Dublin as well.

The service ambassadors (the frontline folks) are basically fighting with one arm tied behind their backs; and it's clear they're doing the best they can. I don't think Tesla's boots-on-the-ground team (edit isn't) is the problem. These folks seem to be trying really hard for the most part.

It's got to be something higher up, and as much fun as it is to blame Elon for everything, there's probably something else going on that is worth exploring. So my hypothesis is that Tesla at some point in time has tried to re-energize their service centers as sales centers. It seems all the high-ups Tesla has installed are former retail folks; not former automotive folks.

I'm pretty sure TMC has strict rules on doxxing even with public information, so I won't name names. But, the regional manager for Tesla's Pacific Northwest is formerly from Nike and GAP Brands. The GM for the Dublin, CA location is formerly Louis Vuitton and J Crew. These folks have never worked at a service center or run post-sales support. They don't seem to have any background other than with retail sales and corporate site operations. Yes, GAP and LV are customer-facing for issues, but their #1 directive is generating sales. The stores are trendy, try to be inviting, and get people to buy.

Since vehicles aren't commodities that can be quickly swapped with a new unit if there's a defect, I think Tesla's own placed folks don't know how to properly execute the steps necessary to give a positive post-sale experience for automobiles. A BR store will stock garbage on the shelves because the QA is done by the manufacturer or distributor. If there's a poor yarn density or poorly fitting pattern, the stores aren't really the ones to give feeback to improve the product. But Tesla's could benefit from folks that understand post-sale service is high-touch and complex. They should be providing feedback when manufacturing is under-delivering on quality.

Anyway, just an observation while I sit through a 2 hour zoom meeting. Am I off base? Do you all think Tesla's service/physical locations are fine with retail-experienced (but not automotive-experienced) leaders?

PS, I'm not a scientist, so maybe I'm not using the word "hypothesis" correctly. Since this is a question I cannot test heh.

I am also experiencing frequent issues with the Tesla Dublin SC. I hear that they are the largest Tesla SC in the United States. I think the problem is related to systemic parts issues and the GM(JB) just doesn't have the background and experience to successfully deal with those issues. I own a 2022 Model S and this is my 4th Tesla and I recently moved to the east bay and noticed that Tesla Dublin SC seems to be more problematic than the other SC's in Palo Alto and San Mateo. I recently purchased a round steering wheel replacement for my car and they failed to have the part in stock and did not let me know until the day of the appointment. This happened 3 times and 2 of the appointments were at the SC so I wasted time showing up and leaving the car at the SC and then finding out at EOD that the work wasn't completed because they were missing the actual steering wheel and airbag kit. I asked why they would inconvenience me and what could be done in the future to avoid a repeat of this situation. I got nothing but excuses but no coherent explanation. I'm frustrated to the point that I may sell the model S and just buy Mercedes EQS.

 

[t3sl4drvr]

My experience with the Tucson Sales/Service center has been very good. The two little problems with my car in 5 years have both been resolved by a mobile visit ( great tech ). I haven't missed the waiting area, lousy coffee and plastic pastries, service advisor upsell, or the juice stained loaner at all.

Mobile service is generally good. The moment you need to go to SC, all hell breaks loose.

 

[brainhouston]

I've never taken car for service but a week ago ordered parts thru app, then picked it up from SC few days later. Flawless experience.
Guy in front of me at the service desk came in to order parts in person, lady was great n helpful, told him its restricted. Helped him with other parts.
YMMV...

 

[black knight 3]

My experience with the Tucson Sales/Service center has been very good. The two little problems with my car in 5 years have both been resolved by a mobile visit ( great tech ). I haven't missed the waiting area, lousy coffee and plastic pastries, service advisor upsell, or the juice stained loaner at all.

i agree. Systemic organizational shortcomings seem to be amplified at high volume service centers or geographic locations with a large tesla base like the SF bay area. Dublin/Pleasanton is the largest service center in the United States..

 

[Puma2020]

I have now had to deal with Tesla Service 4 times in my 3+ years of ownership.
First time was fixing a misalignment issue after just 1 month. This was scheduled at the closest SC (1.5 hours away) but I asked for mobile service and that was granted.
Mobile service was awesome. Great idea, great service.
Second time was for a part and they had someone coming up to my neck of the woods for the weekend and they delivered the part to me personally. I don't believe that any other car company would hand deliver parts over an hour away. That was very impressive.
Third time I was across the country when a rock cracked my windshield. Totally different SC and they were great. I got an appointment quickly (for 2 days later when their windshield person was available) and the car was fixed and back on the road within a few hours. Awesome service. This was my first time actually having to go to a SC and they did seem to be quite busy but they treated me very well.
Last month, my normal silent car started squeaking. I contacted the local SC via the app and asked for advice. They asked me to schedule an appointment and that mobile service would not be appropriate. Yesterday, I drove the 1.5 hours to the SC. Yes, I agree it would be better if there was a closer SC. They and I both had a reasonable expectation that it was the upper control arm issue (which I discovered after searching TMC), they had ordered the parts and were ready for me. They even gave me a good "Scotty" estimate of 2-3 hours, As it was a new area for me, I managed to find a couple of local geocaches (maybe each SC should have their own geocache as a bonus?) and 1.5 hours later, they notified me that the car was ready. Again, flawless service.
I am sure that many others may have had bad experiences, as I have had over the years with various dealers and their service centers, but so far with Tesla, I have been treated very well. I thought I should post this to let others know it's not all bad. The people are working hard and they do their best.
Best part is I am in love with my silent EV (again).

 

[cpa]

What everyone else has said. I would like to add....

At this time, service centers are more than likely not profit centers. They probably have a ton of warranty work to correct as I have heard on this website and elsewhere, the QC of cars coming off the line is average. Any issues are left to the service centers to correct. There is probably emphasis on fixing brand new cars with niggling issues rather than repairing older cars -- even out of warranty cars -- with their problems.

Any significant repair needs to be approved by someone in corporate. This would include a replacement traction battery, drive train, and cooling system. I understand the need to secure approval for an expensive repair, but anecdotes here have revealed that sometimes these approvals can take several days.

Finally, Elon Musk has shown that he hates corporate overhead. Tesla eliminated its PR department some years ago. Musk wanted to eliminate all sales centers in 2018 (I believe) and started terminating employees and store leases. He felt that online ordering was all the rage. He soon relented and maintained a handful of sales centers in large metropolitan areas but still closed up those that were in outlying areas. When sales remained somewhat flat after a period of time, sales centers were revived as service centers expanded. So, I think that part of the situation is that Musk is basically myopic in that he does not wish to spend money if the department is a money loser.

With the advent of paid Supercharging and the explosion of Supercharger sites across the globe, Supercharging is probably a break-even center, give or take. Supercharger repair and response time today is by and large superb. But when I first got my S85 in 2014, repairs could take weeks. Only stations that were completely down (like when thieves severed the cables or when they pirated the $12,000 circuit breaker) did the repair get done in a couple of days. Today, Supercharger maintenance personnel make rounds routinely to make sure the sites are all up and running and correcting proactively any potential issue that may arise. The maintenance personnel are separate from the repair (hot) team that replaces broken equipment from use, misuse, and abuse.

 

[holeydonut]

So new hypothesis... was talking to someone who used to work at Tesla but is now service manager at a competitor.

He said his idea on Tesla service is that everyone basically adopts the mindset WWED (what would Elon do). If Elon heard someone's car spit out a bunch of error codes and glitched out, Elon would naturally think it's just a simple fix and NBD. So while a customer may think the car (under 500 miles) isn't safe to operate, Elon would think the car is totally fine.

Basically, the overriding behavior motive is "if Elon found out what I did, could it get me fired?" If the answer is "yes", then they'll think of an alternate way to behave. The higher up you get on the Tesla totem, the higher the chance Elon could find out what you did. So, they are more and more aligned with the "don't risk pissing Elon off" mentality.

So that's why giving stinky/rickety loaners; or telling people to stop overreacting; or saying "it's in spec." is standard behavior from Tesla service. They believe that's what Elon would do.