How will full self driving handle this ?

[datoda]

What happens if it's Peter Dinklage or Verne Troyer (Auston Power's Mini-Me)?

AP will do a full stop and prompt you to ask for their signatures.

 

[Dan203]

I think perhaps there will need to be a universal standard for signs like that.

If we're going to change the world to adhere to what autonomous cars need then why bother with the sign at all? An autonomous car would be just as happy with some sort of radio signal, so why not just clip some sort of solar powered emitter onto the sign so the car can just get the signal instead of reading the sign? Same applies to traffic signals. And while we're at it why not paint roads with some sort of magnetic or radioactive paint so the cars can just detect them without having to physically see them?

Current technologies are trying to teach cars to operate in a world designed for human drivers. If we had the option to impose standards and change the roads to make it easier for autonomous cars then the whole process would be a LOT easier.

 

[dhanson865]

I think perhaps there will need to be a universal standard for signs like that. Or there could be some communication device in certain areas on signs like that in conjunction with map data. It’s a good question!

I wonder how FSD will respond at an intersection in a left turn lane and the green light is out. Oddball things like that. Does the car just sit there? Maybe they need to be able to “remote in” on cars that get stuck or hung up and initiate control?

when a green light is out you treat it like a stop sign. Unless there are multiple green lights and each handles a lane, then you'd have to have different logic. It'd sure be nice if the car would automatically notify the city engeering dept repsonible by way of that ever present LTE module.

 

[Dan203]

Honestly I think cities are going to have to start adding some technology to help autonomous cars along. Why force cars to use cameras to try and read lights, which could potentially be out, when they could easily just transmit a radio signal to the car conveying the status of the light? Why force cars to read signs when a low power, solar, radio could convey the signs presence and function?

Special paint for road lines are probably unrealistic, since they wear, get scraped away for maintenance, get rerouted for construction, etc... but radio signals from signs and lights are something that cities could easily do to help the progression of autonomous cars if they wanted.

 

[Saghost]

Honestly I think cities are going to have to start adding some technology to help autonomous cars along. Why force cars to use cameras to try and read lights, which could potentially be out, when they could easily just transmit a radio signal to the car conveying the status of the light? Why force cars to read signs when a low power, solar, radio could convey the signs presence and function?

Special paint for road lines are probably unrealistic, since they wear, get scraped away for maintenance, get rerouted for construction, etc... but radio signals from signs and lights are something that cities could easily do to help the progression of autonomous cars if they wanted.

Failsafe. What happens when your transmitter dies?

 

[Dan203]

Failsafe. What happens when your transmitter dies?

What about some sort of passive system like RFID where the car can maybe transmit a signal of some kind that excites the transmitter enough to respond without any power of it's own?

Now if it actually fails... IDK. What happens when a sign falls over or is covered by a low hanging branch?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Of all the things FSD (even as a level 2 system) needs to be able to do, this seems like one of the easier tasks to me. It’s not an edge case; it’s a normal trivial case that should be easily handled with adequate sensors. GPS mapping and accounting for likely school schedules could be used if those machine vision methods prove to be insufficient (which would mean a poor outlook for FSD, in general).

There are so many other actual edge cases which seem much more challenging.

 

[Nocturnal]

That sign is a crime in itself. Most school zones have time requirements and/or those flashing yellow lights. This is just a recipe for a ticket.

 

[muleferg]

 

[PittCaleb]

I have wondered same for the "No Left turn Mon-Fri from 4-6 except holidays"

That kind of thing will need to be put into the maps layer I would think honestly. But "when children present" means, in general, 7-9 and 2-4 from Sep-May and maybe also an hour at lunch? Yeah... this is the 90/10 rule. Coding for these 'outlier' scenarios is why it's not here yet. Coding for the easy stuff has long since been done, by Tesla and others, it's this stuff that's difficult.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

View attachment 450499

Robust machine vision. I like how there is a person hanging out next to the truck.

 

[jordanair45]

Even humans cannot understand those signs

 

[Dan203]

Of all the things FSD (even as a level 2 system) needs to be able to do, this seems like one of the easier tasks to me. It’s not an edge case; it’s a normal trivial case that should be easily handled with adequate sensors. GPS mapping and accounting for likely school schedules could be used if those machine vision methods prove to be insufficient (which would mean a poor outlook for FSD, in general).

There are so many other actual edge cases which seem much more challenging.

Elon says no GPS mapping. It's a crutch! They want the car to see like a human because roads are designed for human drivers.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Elon says no GPS mapping.

Tesla already does GPS mapping. Otherwise it would have no idea what the speed limits are, or whether to limit Autopilot to 5mph over the limit! As a couple specific examples.

 

[Dan203]

Tesla already does GPS mapping. Otherwise it would have no idea what the speed limits are, or whether to limit Autopilot to 5mph over the limit! As a couple specific examples.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they use a Google database for speed limits.

He said no "high resolution" mapping will be used for FSD. Not sure if that applies to signs/signals, but the same reasoning applies. What if something changes and their maps are out of date?

 

[silenteski]

I expect that v1 drives no faster than 15mph when it sees any person, while later versions only do that when a child is present (increased classification detail), and yet later versions drive fast enough to keep up with the traffic flow (increased input dimensions).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they use a Google database for speed limits.

He said no "high resolution" mapping will be used for FSD.

Sure, there is general resistance against HD maps (which some companies are trying to generate/use). But that's different than "no GPS mapping" to figure out where you are and what a good speed might be.

 

[Dan203]

Sure, there is general resistance against HD maps (which some companies are trying to generate/use). But that's different than "no GPS mapping" to figure out where you are and what a good speed might be.

Possible, but again what if the maps are wrong? Reading the sign seems like the only guaranteed way to know what the legal speed limit is.

 

[tvad]

What happens if it's Peter Dinklage or Verne Troyer (Auston Power's Mini-Me)?

Well, Verne Troyer is dead. So, he's no problem.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Reading the sign seems like the only guaranteed way to know what the legal speed limit is.

Agreed! And as I said above, it seems like one of the easiest tasks for FSD. Should be no problem to read hours, read restrictions, that sort of thing. It's all easy stuff. Also will be easy to determine whether people and children are present with extremely high reliability - this is the sort of thing that is mandatory as a baseline capability for level 2 FSD.

Keep in mind that for going beyond level 2 (and possibly even for level 2 to prevent it from being exceedingly dangerous), FSD is going to need to be able to detect a pedestrian's or an animal's FEET underneath parked cars, just like a human driver routinely does!