Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

[waidy]

I have noticed that it doesn't come with a plug holder like the HPWC in the US, so we will have to put the cable and connector somewhere else.

The plug holder may come later. My HPWC (80Amp US version) was one of the early production and it didn't come with a plug holder. The plug holder was delivered several month later. My sister got her 40Amp wall connector yesterday. It will be installed next week.

 

[markwj]

I too have got the wall connector today, and I spoke with a guy in the tesla service centre called Kenny, he mentioned to me that the wall unit we have are 32A ones (It is also printed on the box label), but in the manual, it states 40A. He suggested that the cable to the car may need to be changed if we are configuring the wall connector to use 40A, anyone have heard about this?

I am told the unit will support 40A (on a 50A breaker), but for the moment is internally limited to 32A. There will be a minor hardware/firmware update (performed by ranger) later in the summer to enable 40A. I am installing mine as 40A.

 

[DITB]

I am told the unit will support 40A (on a 50A breaker), but for the moment is internally limited to 32A. There will be a minor hardware/firmware update (performed by ranger) later in the summer to enable 40A. I am installing mine as 40A.

40A should give you 44 km charging pr hour, which isn't too bad at all for a home charger.

When I just visited jweinstein in Anchorage, I noticed he set his max charging level to 80%. Because he usually don't drive too far, he only charges to 80% to preserve the battery even more, because 80% is plenty for him.

If he wants to go further, he can change the charging level from his iPhone (of course, it only makes sense if his car is plugged in already). With his 80A charger (100A breaker), he can get 55 miles charge pr hour, which is around 88 km pr hour, so even if he came home with a totally flat battery, charging wouldn't be much more than 4 hours for him (I realise if totally down, it cannot charge at full rate at the beginning of the charge). So even with a 40A charger, if you come home late at night with 0 km range, it could still be at 80% (or more) next morning way before you even get up (unless you are one of those people who sleep 4 hours or less each night).

The more I learn about this car, the more I love it!

 

[Vmax]

Sincerely hope Tesla releases the 3-phase charger in their firmware for HK cars. Would speed up charging a lot for the ones who have a wallbox from EV Power.

 

[DITB]

Sincerely hope Tesla releases the 3-phase charger in their firmware for HK cars. Would speed up charging a lot for the ones who have a wallbox from EV Power.

Is this limitation both in the car, as well as the HPWC charger?

I am just thinking ... if one got a charger - say - from Europe, and snuck it in quietly.

Not saying anyone should do it, this is purely hypothetical, of course. Just wondering where the limitations are placed.

Also, if someone took their Tesla model S to another country, where charging facilities were more generous and flexible than Hong Kong (if the insurance and registration would allow it).

 

[Vmax]

From what I know/read in other posts:
The wallbox supplied by Tesla in HK is single phase only. Don't think can/will be upgradeable to 3-phase.
The HK Model S can accept 3-phase charging, but the firmware on the car will block it initially. If the demand is there they will allow 3-phase charging with a firmware upgrade at a later stage.

 

[DITB]

From what I know/read in other posts:
The wallbox supplied by Tesla in HK is single phase only. Don't think can/will be upgradeable to 3-phase.
The HK Model S can accept 3-phase charging, but the firmware on the car will block it initially. If the demand is there they will allow 3-phase charging with a firmware upgrade at a later stage.

Despite certification issues and warranty, what can they do to stop people from moving HPWCs from other 220V markets, into Hong Kong? Yes, they can limit the firmware of the car to do it.

So maybe there will be a jailbreak, like on the iPhone. I can just see that coming some day ...

 

[capt666]

I spoke to an electrician who will be installing my wall charger, he said if the car has three phase, the electricity will be distributed more evenly on the meter, which means a lower bill.

I am no electrician, but does anyone know if what he is saying is correct? Because I thought 1 KW is 1 KW, single phase or three phase.

He also recommends that if the car only support single phase, I should get a three phase to single phase converter (taking a lower current from three phase and converting it to a higher current single phase) so that the load is spread evenly, making it more efficient.

 

[Vmax]

I'm not an electrician or anything remotely like that, but I'm sure your are right that 1kw is 1kw concerning the bill.

 

[DITB]

I'm not an electrician or anything remotely like that, but I'm sure your are right that 1kw is 1kw concerning the bill.

I totally agree!

It's not a bad thing, though, to balance out the phases. Not using three phases for charging is stupid technocratic bureaucracy, is Hong Kong really that far behind on infrastructure? Look at our highly developed infrastructure with roads and trains, and we don't even have three-phase appliances?

 

[Vmax]

DITB,
Maybe a misunderstanding. We have 3-phase electricity in most newer developments in HK. It's Tesla who's not sure if they will allow the car's firmware to accept the 3-phases to charge.

 

[DITB]

DITB,
Maybe a misunderstanding. We have 3-phase electricity in most newer developments in HK. It's Tesla who's not sure if they will allow the car's firmware to accept the 3-phases to charge.

Mark says that 2 or 3 phase appliances aren't used in Hong Kong (hence Tesla's hesitation). I know from many other 220/230V AC countries, items like washing machines, dryers, ovens etc, often use 2-phase. In a 220V system, that gives you 380V AC (in a three phase system, where the phase difference is 120 degrees between the phases). A higher voltage means the same cable can carry more watts, without overheating or having extensive losses. This is why especially Japan, with their 100V AC need a lot more copper than in say a 230 V AC system.

So if you do have three phases in your installation, connecting two of them together gives you more voltage (yes, there is a formula), while connecting one phase to null gives you 220 (or whatever nominal voltage). The question is whether or not this is legal in HK. You might even have your breakers pop if you connect two phases, if the system (in HK) isn't made for it. This is because you can measure how much is going in and out on each phase, as well as 0 is coming "out", and if it isn't balanced, you might have the breakers trip.

All my equipment is running in a single phase setup.

 

[Vmax]

Don't know if some "normal" HK home appliances use 3-phase. At least the power supply is available in 3-phase from CLP, e.g. my place and even at a friend's village house in Sai Kung.
Tesla should give us based on what supply is available and not what other appliances can use.

 

[miimura]

DITB,
Maybe a misunderstanding. We have 3-phase electricity in most newer developments in HK. It's Tesla who's not sure if they will allow the car's firmware to accept the 3-phases to charge.

This is totally illogical to me. They will have to change the firmware to block 3-phase charging when all the other cars built with the Type-2 inlet allow 3-phase charging. It's a designed-in feature. There must be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line or somebody in Tesla is scared of what they don't know. If they need more testing, fine, but Hong Kong is not Norway. Tesla needs to get the facts from electrical providers in Hong Kong and be done with it. One would think that Tesla engineering has learned their lessons about what is really needed from the electrical grid and they can just go through a checklist for each new market. Am I giving them too much credit?

Is seems that they should just say "We are providing single phase charging through the Wall Connector at this time. The car is capable of 3-phase charging but it is not tested with the 3-phase power and all the EVSE available in Hong Kong. Tesla Hong Kong will maintain a list of tested 3rd Party EVSE." Then, when an owner says "my carpark has XYZ EVSE", they can say "Oh, we haven't tested that one. Can we send a technician with a demo vehicle to test it?" Way better customer experience...

 

[Vmax]

Tesla HK is recommending EV Power for installation of charging solutions here. If you want a manufacturer independent solution, EV Power offers their own "smart" wallbox.
"All common EV Charging standard embedded into the charger, they include US (SAEJ1772), EUR(IEC62196), and CHN (GB2034)"
It can use and charge with 3-phases, so it just would make sense if Tesla would allow their firmware to make use of it.
Besides EV Power did and does many installations in public carparks. I believe they will also make use of 3-phase if it's available at the place of installation.

 

[DITB]

Don't know if some "normal" HK home appliances use 3-phase. At least the power supply is available in 3-phase from CLP, e.g. my place and even at a friend's village house in Sai Kung.
Tesla should give us based on what supply is available and not what other appliances can use.

It's not a question of whether you have three phases or not.

It's whether it is legal or not, combing two phases into one consumer unit, instead of only one phase and 0/neutral.

Most of your appliances plug into a normal 13A 220V AC outlet, the one already discussed so much on these forums. One pin is a phase, the other is 0/Neutral, and then finally, the third (lower/middle) pin is grounding (and most often not used). Each of your items then, use only one phase. If you could use two phases, you could heat your oven/laundry/iron forge much quicker. Or charge your car faster! Use three phases, if possible, and it would be even better! The HPWC only has two connections, so two-phase seems to be the limit. With a 1 cm cable from charger to car, I doubt the currently offered HPWC units will even be conveyable to two-phase, correct me if I am wrong.

Phase + 0/Neutral = 220V AC

Phase + Phase = 380V AC (not sure if this is what is called "split phase", I'm just used to calling it either 380V or 400V, then people know it's using two phases)

These are two types of 380V AC (or 400V AC, for a 230V AC system), that I know of from Europe:

As you can see both connectors have 5 plugs: Phase 1, 2 and 3, 0/Neutral and ground. That doesn't mean they are always used, but normally, sockets have all three phases, then it's up to the connector which phases are used.

It has been like that even since the 70's, maybe even before, when I grew up. It's not new technology at all, but I am not sure how widespread this is in Hong Kong - and whether or not it is even allowed for HK consumers to combine two phases to make use of 380V AC.

As far as this wiki page suggests, Hong Kong supports three-phase:

Three-phase electric power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More reading here also

Three-phase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I totally understand Tesla Motors are cautious. If there is just one single fire or other serious problem, and they are not 100% covered legally and technically, all hell will break loose - spearheaded by Apple Daily I'm certain.

 

[sonywong]

Three cables can use with 13A plugs in HK (they are not cheap!)
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/alternatives-universal-mobile-connector
I want to order the evconnectors.com one, looks like a typo on the description:
Portable Mode 2 16a 62196-2 EVSE with 13A Domestic Plug

 

[GSP]

Three cables can use with 13A plugs in HK (they are not cheap!)
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/alternatives-universal-mobile-connector
I want to order the evconnectors.com one, looks like a typo on the description:
Portable Mode 2 16a 62196-2 EVSE with 13A Domestic Plug

The second link has a J1772 plug, instead of the Mennekes "type 2" plug that Hong Kong Model S cars need. It looks like a good product, maybe they also have a Mennekes version.

GSP

 

[sonywong]

The second link has a J1772 plug, instead of the Mennekes "type 2" plug that Hong Kong Model S cars need. It looks like a good product, maybe they also have a Mennekes version.

GSP

I guess this is typo in the spec. as the product name is IEC 62196. Emailed them about this cable and waiting for their reply.

Their J1772 cable page:
Portable Mode 2 16a J1772 EVSE with 13A Domestic Plug

 

[GSP]

I guess this is typo in the spec. as the product name is IEC 62196. Emailed them about this cable and waiting for their reply.

Their J1772 cable page:
Portable Mode 2 16a J1772 EVSE with 13A Domestic Plug

IEC62196 allows both type 1 (J1772) and type 2 (Mennekes) plugs (and type 3, used in France). "Mode 2" does not refer to the plug type, which can add to the confusion.

Good Luck with your ESVE shopping and enjoy your Tesla!

GSP