Help me justify a P85D instead of 70D ($8k difference)

[sorka]

Given what I know now, and since my driving is mostly highway, if I had to do it over again, I'd have bought the 85D instead of the P85D given on the open highway there is very little difference in performance.

If I was mostly commuting on city streets and expressways, I'd still buy the P85D even knowing what I know now.

 

[Johan]

Given what I know now, and since my driving is mostly highway, if I had to do it over again, I'd have bought the 85D instead of the P85D given on the open highway there is very little difference in performance.

If I was mostly commuting on city streets and expressways, I'd still buy the P85D even knowing what I know now.

This post coincides very nicely with how you answered wk057 on the other thread about how there is only a 30 hp difference between a P85D and a P85 going at highway speeds already (when he was complaining that his P85D should have "more than 200 horsepower more" than his wife's P85).

 

[RyanT]

So, the 85D would only be $3K difference using this math. I'd get the 85D just for the range. I've rolled into a suppercharger with 5-10% range plenty of times.

 

[Uncle Paul]

To determine if the better performance is "worth it" to you, ponder your current driving style.

Do you floor the peddle a lot in your current car. Then get the hot rod.

If you are more of a cruiser, then the 70 is the one for you.

70D is faster than most ICE cars on the road, and that will be good enough for most, but some drive very aggressively all the time, and the 85 should make them better satisfied.

Many high performance vehicle drivers use all the available power when their car is new, or showing off to passengers, but then drop back to cruise mode to protect tires and provocation of the police.

Most every buyer will justify the car they purchase, and consider that to be the "best one". They tend to continually justify their purchase decision to others.

 

[travwill]

I put a deposit on a 70d yesterday and have 7 days to modify it before it gets locked in. I'm on the fence about upgrading to a P85D and today had a revelation - It's really only about an $8k cost difference! Tell me if you buy this line of thinking:
If I purchase the P85D for $30k more than the 70D, I'll probably be able to sell it for about $22k more than the 70D in four years. If I can afford to let that $30k "sit" in the Tesla as equity for 4 years, I'll get most of it back out. I only really lose out on the depreciation of the incremental cost.

Does that make sense? I'm trying to convince myself

Based on CPO prices, the P85's have depreciated much more % wise than the S60s even in almost all markets. In general depreciation on higher priced cars is always more, like Aston Martin's for example - and especially on Tesla's where 95% of car is the same parts between the two (P85/S60 again and P85D & 70D even).

-T

 

[brucet999]

I was figuring a 25% depreciation over 4 years.
Since the price difference between the cars is $30k, I'll lose out on 25% of that, or about $8k. The other $22k I'll recoup when I sell the car (because you can sell a used P85D for more than a used 70D).

Maybe this makes more sense:
brand new 70D: $87k
brand new P85D: $117k

After four years, assume 25% depreciation of both.
You can sell the 70D for $65k
You can sell the P85D for $87

So you spend $30k more for the P85D, but resell it after four years for $22k more, for a difference of $8k to own a P85D instead of a 70D for four years.

Depreciation as, I have seen it on Edmunds.com, generally is pretty high in the first year and then in the second year increases by something like 7 to 8% on high price cars. Thereafter the additional depreciation slowly decreases year by year until it plateaus at about 5% per year.

2014 85s, with 12,000 miles or less, are priced on CPO at about 80% of original selling price, so I would expect about 20% loss of original price in the first year and 7.5% second year, then 7% and 6,5% for a total drop of 41% after 4 years. Therefor I think you might expect the price difference of $30k to "depreciate" to more like a $12k difference after 4 years of low mileage driving. Of course, a 100kWh battery introduction in 2017 would precipitately increase depreciation of all 2015 variants.

 

[MsElectric]

Depreciation as, I have seen it on Edmunds.com, generally is pretty high in the first year and then in the second year increases by something like 7 to 8% on high price cars. Thereafter the additional depreciation slowly decreases year by year until it plateaus at about 5% per year.

2014 85s, with 12,000 miles or less, are priced on CPO at about 80% of original selling price, so I would expect about 20% loss of original price in the first year and 7.5% second year, then 7% and 6,5% for a total drop of 41% after 4 years. Therefor I think you might expect the price difference of $30k to "depreciate" to more like a $12k difference after 4 years of low mileage driving. Of course, a 100kWh battery introduction in 2017 would precipitately increase depreciation of all 2015 variants.

The 25% figure in 4 years is wishful thinking. You have a good point in that after 4 years you will get some of that extra $30 back. Most likely what you get back is $10-$15K.

I agree with those who've said buy it if that's something you'd really enjoy.

 

[brucet999]

And, Cryptyk, don't forget the extra sales tax and registration cost that you won't get back. In CA that means about 10% in the first year, increasing the extra cost by an additional $3,000.

 

[sorka]

I'll be happy if my P85D holds 50% of it's value after three years.

 

[SneakyMind]

Question is can you afford it? If So its totally worth the money!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Thankfully an hour an half later you came to your senses, and realized the 85D was the sweet spot.

As to resale value Tesla already has a good gauge of resale with the Resale value guarantee. You can use it to determine the worst case 3 year depreciation. And, yes with this car and with Tesla's rate of improvement you have to use the WORST CASE. In three years the car is worth 50% of the base, and 43% of the options. Assuming you keep under 15K miles a year.

It used to be that even the upgrade to 85 from a 60 was considered an option. I'm not sure if they still do that. Hopefully not.

 

[AGT Tactical]

Cryptyk, one thing you can count on is that most people will support the decision they made for their particular choice of car, whether is be the 70D, 85D or P85D. There's a lot more people who don't have the P85D compared to the other models collectively, so you'll find a lot more "criticism" over making a choice for the P85D. I don’t think people are being dishonest…there’s just a natural subconscious tendency to be biased towards their own decisions. Yes, same goes for P85D owners, including me, so take what I say with a grain of salt. It would be interesting to see how many P85D owners regret their decision and wish they'd have bought an 85D...I'm guessing the vast majority are very happy that they spent the extra money.

But I’m a former S85 owner, and when I had that car, I always felt a little bit like I was missing out by not buying Tesla's top of line car. I tried to rationalize it on economics, etc., but every time I saw a P or PD I’d question my choice. Yeah, $20,000 is a big price difference, but as you and others have stated, the car will retain some of that cost in its residual value. And there's CLEARLY a price difference on average between the cars...used P85's generally cost a good bit more than their S85 counterparts. And, I can tell you from personal experience that about 1/2 of my potential buyers walked away when they realized my S85 was not a P85 (despite the car being advertised as “S85”). But even if you recover none of the full $20K extra cost, is it worth it to own Tesla’s flagship; to own a car that you can do 0-3.1 whenever you want; to own a true supercar? I say yes. With a P85D, you are not buying an object... you are buying a life experience. And a P85D will always be a P85D…just like a Ferrari 308 or Ferrari F40 still have cult status, despite being eclipsed by much faster and more modern cars.

I’d ask myself this? How hard would it be for you to work a little harder to make up that difference? If you are willing and able to do so…how hard would it be to earn an extra $20,000 that you would otherwise NOT have earned? If getting a P85D motivates you enough to put in some extra time and energy to generate the income to pay the difference, the car really costs you nothing extra.

 

[sorka]

It would be interesting to see how many P85D owners regret their decision and wish they'd have bought an 85D...I'm guessing the vast majority are very happy that they spent the extra money.

I wish I'd bought an 85D instead. I think there are others based on comments in both forums in the last few months.

 

[cryptyk]

I wish I'd bought an 85D instead. I think there are others based on comments in both forums in the last few months.

Why? I can't imagine any other reason other than financial problems, but it would help me make the decision a LOT if you could elaborate.

Thanks!
Ryan

 

[AGT Tactical]

I wish I'd bought an 85D instead. I think there are others based on comments in both forums in the last few months.

Yes, I think you mentioned that earlier. Of course there are some who wish they'd would have gotten a 85D (which is why I said MOST (not all) were probably very happy with their P85D purchase). There's also probably an awful lot 85D owners who would have liked to buy the P85D as well. When Tesla does its demonstrations at the factory, people line up for the P85D ride...

And its so fun to hear my wife tell me about all the fun she has driving it to work everyday.

 

[yobigd20]

just buy it if you want it. the value isn't there though so definitely not a good investment. I got the P instead of the S because I knew when I had a V6 camaro for years I was always PO'd that I didnt choose the V8. well, that and at that time (2012) the P included a lot of the now "options" for free. that is no longer the case. You'd literally be paying $30k more for a .75 increase on 0-60 time and that is it. (post 60mph the P and non P are essentially the same). it's just not worth it unless $30k is pocket change to you.

 

[Tampaukfan]

I would choose the 85D, over the 70D and P85D. The 85D has the extra range, performance that is close to a P85D.... 1 second of 0-60 time is not worth 20 grand in my opinion.
Buy a loaded up 85D and with the 20K buy some bad ass wheels and use the rest for paint protection.

 

[dsm363]

Agree. Buy the P85D only if you have to have that insane acceleration. If that just isn't you save the cash and enjoy the extra range of the 85D.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Buy the 85D. Then, when you bring it in for service see if you can get a P85D loaner. That should satisfy the occasional lust for insane performance while saving you 30k.

 

[AGT Tactical]

just buy it if you want it. the value isn't there though so definitely not a good investment. I got the P instead of the S because I knew when I had a V6 camaro for years I was always PO'd that I didnt choose the V8. well, that and at that time (2012) the P included a lot of the now "options" for free. that is no longer the case. You'd literally be paying $30k more for a .75 increase on 0-60 time and that is it. (post 60mph the P and non P are essentially the same). it's just not worth it unless $30k is pocket change to you.

I do agree that it is not a good investment...but it's also true that probably NO $90,000+ Model S is a "good" investment.

The price difference between the 85D and P85D is $20,000, not $30,000. With 7% tax, its about $21,400.

The speed difference is 1.3 seconds, not .75 (4.4 vs. 3.1 sec). Nonetheless, that "small difference" in 0-60 is really not a small thing...its the difference between "fast car" and "super car" territory. For $20,000, its a bargain. Look at the cost of cars with similar performance...all much more expensive, with much greater total cost of ownership, and far less practical with generally two doors, two seats, and no trunk space. Million dollar F40s are slower than the P85D from 0-75 mph...the speed envelope where 99.9% of driving is done.

The extra range for the 85D is not relevant for most of us (yes, it can be important for some). The Tesla Supercharger network was designed for the 60kWh battery, with far less range than the 70D or P85D. On the very rare occasion that nominal 17 miles might make a difference, your driving habits and your brain will be more important than that 17 miles. And, that 17 miles will become even less important as more Tesla SC stations and direct DC charging stations continue to pop up. Plus, someday, if you really need it, you'll be able to swap out your old 85kWh battery for something bigger... Don't get me wrong...the 85D is a great car. But the question was why a P85D.