Ok guys, here's a story. Posting this here in hopes of getting some advice or help in some way.
TLDR:
-Purchased a B pack from a guy for removing cells and making e-bike packs early this year. I inspected in person by flying up there.
-Overall successful. They make great ebike, powertool, hobby batteries, etc.
-Found a guy who was willing to pay $$$ for the case and BMS only so we decided to take the opportunity to get another pack.
-Entered into verbal contract to purchase 2nd B pack early April 2015 from same seller. Have recorded phone conversations. Seller understood we wanted a B pack and knows to look at sticker. We had educated him on this prior . Payment cashiers check by mail.
-Mid April pack is received: upside down, damaged, and it's a very early (reman.) A pack.
-Phone seller and he says things like "Oh I'm not technical, etc, I figured it would be the same" "Sorry, the money is spent."
-File claim with shipping company and denied twice. Seller is less then helpful.
-Inspect pictures seller sent before shipment and I realize that it's not of the pack we received. It's pics of a B pack. We had used those pictures in our dispute with the shipping company.
-Seller arranged all shipment and packing.
-I had a contract with a guy to sell him the frame, so we were in a tough spot and had to open it up. We payed $$$ to get it repaied and will be shipping it to him within a couple of days.
-We have tested the cells, and they are, as suspected, inferior to the B pack cells. Not because they are older, it's clear there's a major change (related to the supercharging difference....)
-Now were stuck with the wrong pack, damage we had to pay $$$ to fix (and the guy buying the frame may still not be happy) and a seller who's not agrees to ANY compensation.
/TLDR
So, we have experience disassembling a Model S battery pack, removing the cells and building e-bike, etc. battery packs out of them. They are great for that, unlike all other EV's.
We recently bought a second Model S pack, from the same guy we got the first one. We thought we were getting a great deal, because I had found a guy who wanted to buy the case, thus really getting our costs down. We were hoping to offer a nice discount on the same caliber cells.
The first pack was a "B" pack from a 2013 MY car. I explained to the seller exactly what this means, and how to check, when we purchased the first pack from him a couple months ago. I flew up there and checked myself before paying him. Everything was good.
For the 2nd pack, I asked him and he as clear as day said it was a "B" pack, so we paid via cashiers check and had him ship it. I have all recorded telephone conversations.
The pack arrives, and it's an older "A" pack, the only version we didn't want. It's super easy to check. You just look at the sticker, like I had told him before.
Of course we call, pissed off, and he goes on and on about he's not technical, and he though they'd be the same, etc. He says the money's already spent (we said take the f-king thing back and give us a refund)
Here's the other deal, the pack frame was damaged significantly by the shipping company (or by the seller).The damage would have had to been some pretty negligent handling, like the pack flipped off the truck and they flipped it back up up-side down and stabbed the pack with a fork truck (not into the cells). So we are having to spend $$$ and time getting that BS fixed.
So, we were in a tight spot to supply the pack frame to the guy who needed it, and the seller saying sorry no money so we pulled it apart. The cells are fine, two modules did take an impact though. We would not sell those (and hope to seek compensation??)
It turns out it is a re-manufactured pack, so the cells probably have been sitting most of their life. They test with full capacity, actually slightly higher (~50mAh) then the first packs cells. They do sag a little more at extended drain of 10A test. They're still good enough to complete a 10A discharge (and get full capacity) but because of the extra sag, they are probably better for ~8.5A cont. max. They'd still be fine for burst to 15A for 5sec.
The performance difference is expected. This why the "A" packs have 90kW supercharging and the rest of the packs do up to 120kW. The cells are slightly different physically... interestingly, these have the 3/4 moon vent seen on the Tesla patents on the negative terminal.
In addition, because of a minor, but significant to us design change, it takes at least THREE TIMES the labor to remove the cells from the A pack module then the B pack+ modules.
Get this, I inspect the pictures the seller sent more closely today, and I realize it's not the pack we received. I email him about it. He says "Yes wrong one." WE HAD USED THOSE PICTURES IN THE DISPUTE WITH THE SHIPPING COMPANY!
The reason I am bringing this up here is;
1.) Explanation, this has been taking way too much of our time the past 1.5 weeks.... we want and need to be finished with it.
2.) Perhaps in the off chance, is there someone who knows a lawyer in IOWA who might help us with both claims?
This whole thing really bummed us out the past week or so. The whole situation pisses me off.
Thoughts? The seller has an account on this forum, BTW.
TLDR:
-Purchased a B pack from a guy for removing cells and making e-bike packs early this year. I inspected in person by flying up there.
-Overall successful. They make great ebike, powertool, hobby batteries, etc.
-Found a guy who was willing to pay $$$ for the case and BMS only so we decided to take the opportunity to get another pack.
-Entered into verbal contract to purchase 2nd B pack early April 2015 from same seller. Have recorded phone conversations. Seller understood we wanted a B pack and knows to look at sticker. We had educated him on this prior . Payment cashiers check by mail.
-Mid April pack is received: upside down, damaged, and it's a very early (reman.) A pack.
-Phone seller and he says things like "Oh I'm not technical, etc, I figured it would be the same" "Sorry, the money is spent."
-File claim with shipping company and denied twice. Seller is less then helpful.
-Inspect pictures seller sent before shipment and I realize that it's not of the pack we received. It's pics of a B pack. We had used those pictures in our dispute with the shipping company.
-Seller arranged all shipment and packing.
-I had a contract with a guy to sell him the frame, so we were in a tough spot and had to open it up. We payed $$$ to get it repaied and will be shipping it to him within a couple of days.
-We have tested the cells, and they are, as suspected, inferior to the B pack cells. Not because they are older, it's clear there's a major change (related to the supercharging difference....)
-Now were stuck with the wrong pack, damage we had to pay $$$ to fix (and the guy buying the frame may still not be happy) and a seller who's not agrees to ANY compensation.
/TLDR
So, we have experience disassembling a Model S battery pack, removing the cells and building e-bike, etc. battery packs out of them. They are great for that, unlike all other EV's.
We recently bought a second Model S pack, from the same guy we got the first one. We thought we were getting a great deal, because I had found a guy who wanted to buy the case, thus really getting our costs down. We were hoping to offer a nice discount on the same caliber cells.
The first pack was a "B" pack from a 2013 MY car. I explained to the seller exactly what this means, and how to check, when we purchased the first pack from him a couple months ago. I flew up there and checked myself before paying him. Everything was good.
For the 2nd pack, I asked him and he as clear as day said it was a "B" pack, so we paid via cashiers check and had him ship it. I have all recorded telephone conversations.
The pack arrives, and it's an older "A" pack, the only version we didn't want. It's super easy to check. You just look at the sticker, like I had told him before.
Of course we call, pissed off, and he goes on and on about he's not technical, and he though they'd be the same, etc. He says the money's already spent (we said take the f-king thing back and give us a refund)
Here's the other deal, the pack frame was damaged significantly by the shipping company (or by the seller).The damage would have had to been some pretty negligent handling, like the pack flipped off the truck and they flipped it back up up-side down and stabbed the pack with a fork truck (not into the cells). So we are having to spend $$$ and time getting that BS fixed.
So, we were in a tight spot to supply the pack frame to the guy who needed it, and the seller saying sorry no money so we pulled it apart. The cells are fine, two modules did take an impact though. We would not sell those (and hope to seek compensation??)
It turns out it is a re-manufactured pack, so the cells probably have been sitting most of their life. They test with full capacity, actually slightly higher (~50mAh) then the first packs cells. They do sag a little more at extended drain of 10A test. They're still good enough to complete a 10A discharge (and get full capacity) but because of the extra sag, they are probably better for ~8.5A cont. max. They'd still be fine for burst to 15A for 5sec.
The performance difference is expected. This why the "A" packs have 90kW supercharging and the rest of the packs do up to 120kW. The cells are slightly different physically... interestingly, these have the 3/4 moon vent seen on the Tesla patents on the negative terminal.
In addition, because of a minor, but significant to us design change, it takes at least THREE TIMES the labor to remove the cells from the A pack module then the B pack+ modules.
Get this, I inspect the pictures the seller sent more closely today, and I realize it's not the pack we received. I email him about it. He says "Yes wrong one." WE HAD USED THOSE PICTURES IN THE DISPUTE WITH THE SHIPPING COMPANY!
The reason I am bringing this up here is;
1.) Explanation, this has been taking way too much of our time the past 1.5 weeks.... we want and need to be finished with it.
2.) Perhaps in the off chance, is there someone who knows a lawyer in IOWA who might help us with both claims?
This whole thing really bummed us out the past week or so. The whole situation pisses me off.
Thoughts? The seller has an account on this forum, BTW.
