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Get Amped Tour: Chicago, 7/26 - 7/28
- Thread starter kevincwelch
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Finally got to see the Model S in the flesh for the first time. This car is for my wife (so all that matters is that she likes it). Tesla was nice enough to allow both my wife and myself to test drive the car separately, and we both came away with different perspectives on the Model S. I thought the car had a "novelty" type of feel to it, the big screen was uber-cool but very distracting. I tried to use the steering wheel buttons but there were so many nested functions that it was hard to concentrate on what was going on in the cluster and drive. I thought the interior was austere and definitely needs a significant revamp to compete with other cars in this price range.
On the other hand my wife loved the car, and the open feeling of the vehicle. I am not sure what we are going to do with the reservation; but I feel stomach churning bad spending this kind of money and not being 100% sold on the car.
On the other hand my wife loved the car, and the open feeling of the vehicle. I am not sure what we are going to do with the reservation; but I feel stomach churning bad spending this kind of money and not being 100% sold on the car.
If she loves it and will be the primary driver it might still be a good purchase. I think you'd probably get used to the screen but you need to feel comfortable with buying it of course as well since it is an expensive car. Welcome to TMC too.
So here is my review of the Model S silver non-performance car I drove in Chicago. This review is presented in terms of whether it passes or fails my expectations, particularly with respect to the Volt and in areas that haven’t been extensively covered by others. To restate the obvious, the amount of time allowed was sufficient for a drive, but not for a test drive, yet, I tried my best.
Pass
1. Accelerator pedal mapping: Accelerator pedal mapping is done well and allows for good control at low speed.
2. Turn radius and steering feel: My perception of the turn radius agrees with the published 37 ft. While this is more than the Volt’s 36 ft, I give it a pass considering its monster size. Steering feedback was good enough for me and I can see myself using both the comfort and sport power assist settings at different times.
3. Turn signal blip: The turn signal flashes three times after a blip of the stalk.
4. Max acceleration into a right turn from a full stop: Chassis stiffness, suspension, tyres and traction control all need to work together to make this successful. The result was on par with the Volt. The Model S has less chirp from the inside front tyre, but probably only because it is rear wheel drive, while the Volt is front wheel drive. Considering that the Model S is much bigger and heavier than the Volt, I give this test a pass.
5. Cruise control: The cruise control is really well done. When on, it displays the speed set point as a bug on the outside of the speedometer circle, just like the bugs on the IAS or HSI on an aeroplane. Resume and increment/decrement reacts immediately and adjusts the speed assertively without any undershoot or overshoot. The increments are 1 mph (see more below).
6. Acceleration: 0 to 60 mph came in 6.5 seconds and 0 to 100 km/h in 6.8 s. However, as can been seen from the Graph 1 below, the motor overpowered the brakes when applying power against the brakes, causing the timer to trigger prematurely by not more than 0.3 s. So, 0-60 mph in 6.2 s and 0-100 km/h in 6.5 s are probably more accurate. There were four people on board with an estimated mass of 290 kg. With only an 80 kg driver on board, we can expect 0-60 mph in 5.6 to 5.7 s which is close enough to the claimed 5.6 s. Acceleration in the peak torque band was 0.47 g compared to 0.39 g (two occupants 140 kg) or 0.40 g (single occupant 85 kg) in the Volt. While this difference is noticeable, it is not dramatically better, and neither my wife nor I said “wow” or “oh my god”. The important difference, though, is that the Volt starts losing torque at 50 km/h, while the Model S keeps going until 76 km/h (according to the specs page, and confirmed here). At 100 km/h, the Volt has only 0.15 g acceleration, while the Model S still has more than 0.3 g. This will allow highway manoeuvres with much more confidence.
7. Air suspension: The air suspension really does make a difference to the ride quality. I also suspect that it contributes greatly to the quiet interior.
Undecided
1. Regeneration: I was hoping that the Model S would have stronger regen braking than the Volt. What I felt during the drive was that it was initially weaker than the Volt, but then became stronger as the car slowed. Looking at the graph below, this is confirmed. From 65 to 45 mph it was 0.13 g and limited by the 60 kW charge limit. Below that speed it is a constant 0.15 g. The Volt starts at 0.15 g and ramps down as it slows. I prefer the constant deceleration of the Model S, but would’ve preferred it to be at least 0.20 g.
2. Immediate access to air recirculation: This is a big irritation in the Volt. It has 37 buttons on the centre panel for everything under the sun, except for recirculate, which is the one thing that you need immediate access to when driving through a cloud of dust or behind a smoke billowing truck. The Prius has a recirculate button right on the steering wheel, which is perfect. The Model S does not have a recirculate touchon in the A/C controls area, but it does have an A/C on/off touchon, which does turn off the fan. I suppose this is better than nothing.
Failed
1. Door close action: I have written before (Nissan Leaf) that the Volt has the best door close action of any car I have interacted with. The doors will close themselves after just a slight nudge out of the hold detent. The model S has an extra hold detent close to the closed position that effectively “catches” the door before it closes. And there isn’t enough spring action left to close it after moving it out of this detent. After all the fuss and bother from Franz about the door handles, I am quite upset that they couldn’t get the door close right. Big Fail.
2. Displays in SI units: The firmware in the beta unit in the store has an option to display distance in miles or km. However, nothing visible happens on the screen. On the test car the option was not in the same place, and the co-pilot did not know and could not find a place to change either distance or speed.
3. Tyre pressure display: The co-pilot did not know and could not find how to display the tyre pressures on the centre screen.
4. Regeneration cut-out speed: In the Volt regen stops at 5 km/h. On the Model S, it was between 7 and 6 mph (see above) so, probably at 10 km/h.
5. Rear visibility: The hatch window looks really small in the rear view mirror. The Volt’s is already small compared to the Prius, but the Model S is almost not worth the effort. I also found that the driver side mirror does not adjust far enough out to cover the 7 to 9 o’clock area.
6. Brake override: See why (Toyota Settles Over Death of Family in High-Speed Crash - NYTimes.com), and how (About Toyota | Our News | Toyota Evaluates Unintended Acceleration Complaints in Remedied Vehicles). GM also (GM to Expand Brake Override Software Globally by 2012). In order to simulate stopping the car with a stuck accelerator, my usual test procedure is to start by flooring the accelerator with my right foot, accelerate to 100 km/h and then apply the brakes firmly with my left foot while holding the accelerator down. Even in cars without brake override, the brakes are strong enough to bring the car to a controlled stop pretty quickly. The Model S failed this test in the most unexpected and unusual way. The test route didn’t have enough space to perform this at 100 km/h, so I started at about 70 km/h / 40 mph. The brakes prevented further acceleration, but did not slow the car. I was about to abort the test, when it slowly started to decelerate, so I kept going. This was probably due to better friction from the pads as they warmed up. Then, at somewhere between 30 and 20 mph, and 3 to 5 seconds after braking, the car suddenly came to a violent stop. This startled me and upset the co-pilot tremendously! It is entirely possible that I didn’t push the brakes hard enough, but there wasn’t enough space or time to try again and the co-pilot certainly wasn’t in the mood. However, I would then argue that the force required for maximum braking is too high, and that the abrupt stop at the end indicates that I did push hard enough. So, it appears that the brakes are not powerful enough, and if there is a motor power reduction, it takes far, far too long to trigger (should be < 0.5 s). Huge Fail. I’ve been encouraged to, and will try to get an explanation of this behaviour from HQ. (Update: With Tesla Engineering as of Aug 1)
Untested
1. Sun visor extension: I wanted to check that the sun visor swivel arm can extend so that the visor can reach the B-pillar, but fussing over the speed display distracted me and took too much time.
2. Interior noise level: The intention was to measure A-weighted and C-weighted noise at 80 and 100 km/h, but the practice run revealed that there would be time for only one measurement. Unfortunately operator error resulted in no measurement taken. For reference, the Volt noise levels are: 59 dB-A and 81 dB-C at 80 km/h and 61 dB-A and 82 dB-C at 100 km/h on new asphalt. My perception was that the Model S is slightly quieter in the C-weighted range and significantly quieter in the A-weighted range. I suspect the air suspension has a lot to do with that.
3. Cruise control increment in km/h: This test was not performed because we could not get the speed display in km/h. Pass would be if the cruise control increments in 1 km/h steps if the speed display is in km/h and fail would be if it increments in 1.6 km/h steps.
4. Ease of parking: I am concerned about the width of the car when parking (particularly in narrow California parking spaces). Unfortunately all the spots on the approach to the staging area were taken.
Conclusion
I went to the drive expecting and hoping to be wowed, but was not. Maybe this is because the Volt is already so much better than most other cars that the Model S cannot be that much better. Or maybe the Volt is just a better fit to my needs and expectations. The Model S is a much bigger car than I need for daily single occupant commuting. I will keep my reservation and re-evaluate when the time to configure comes in the hope that the failed items are corrected and the untested items pass. Other items that could affect my decision include adding creep, adding a poorly implemented hill hold, interior lighting changes, lack of front proximity sensors and collision avoidance.
As others have said, the Model S is simply too expensive a car to use for one, at most two hours a day and not meet all my expectations.
Graph 1: Model S Acceleration. Non-performance. Standard regen. 4 occupants.
Graph 2: Volt Acceleration. Normal mode, L regen. 2 occupants.
Graph 3: Volt Acceleration. Normal mode, L regen. 1 occupant.
Pass
1. Accelerator pedal mapping: Accelerator pedal mapping is done well and allows for good control at low speed.
2. Turn radius and steering feel: My perception of the turn radius agrees with the published 37 ft. While this is more than the Volt’s 36 ft, I give it a pass considering its monster size. Steering feedback was good enough for me and I can see myself using both the comfort and sport power assist settings at different times.
3. Turn signal blip: The turn signal flashes three times after a blip of the stalk.
4. Max acceleration into a right turn from a full stop: Chassis stiffness, suspension, tyres and traction control all need to work together to make this successful. The result was on par with the Volt. The Model S has less chirp from the inside front tyre, but probably only because it is rear wheel drive, while the Volt is front wheel drive. Considering that the Model S is much bigger and heavier than the Volt, I give this test a pass.
5. Cruise control: The cruise control is really well done. When on, it displays the speed set point as a bug on the outside of the speedometer circle, just like the bugs on the IAS or HSI on an aeroplane. Resume and increment/decrement reacts immediately and adjusts the speed assertively without any undershoot or overshoot. The increments are 1 mph (see more below).
6. Acceleration: 0 to 60 mph came in 6.5 seconds and 0 to 100 km/h in 6.8 s. However, as can been seen from the Graph 1 below, the motor overpowered the brakes when applying power against the brakes, causing the timer to trigger prematurely by not more than 0.3 s. So, 0-60 mph in 6.2 s and 0-100 km/h in 6.5 s are probably more accurate. There were four people on board with an estimated mass of 290 kg. With only an 80 kg driver on board, we can expect 0-60 mph in 5.6 to 5.7 s which is close enough to the claimed 5.6 s. Acceleration in the peak torque band was 0.47 g compared to 0.39 g (two occupants 140 kg) or 0.40 g (single occupant 85 kg) in the Volt. While this difference is noticeable, it is not dramatically better, and neither my wife nor I said “wow” or “oh my god”. The important difference, though, is that the Volt starts losing torque at 50 km/h, while the Model S keeps going until 76 km/h (according to the specs page, and confirmed here). At 100 km/h, the Volt has only 0.15 g acceleration, while the Model S still has more than 0.3 g. This will allow highway manoeuvres with much more confidence.
7. Air suspension: The air suspension really does make a difference to the ride quality. I also suspect that it contributes greatly to the quiet interior.
Undecided
1. Regeneration: I was hoping that the Model S would have stronger regen braking than the Volt. What I felt during the drive was that it was initially weaker than the Volt, but then became stronger as the car slowed. Looking at the graph below, this is confirmed. From 65 to 45 mph it was 0.13 g and limited by the 60 kW charge limit. Below that speed it is a constant 0.15 g. The Volt starts at 0.15 g and ramps down as it slows. I prefer the constant deceleration of the Model S, but would’ve preferred it to be at least 0.20 g.
2. Immediate access to air recirculation: This is a big irritation in the Volt. It has 37 buttons on the centre panel for everything under the sun, except for recirculate, which is the one thing that you need immediate access to when driving through a cloud of dust or behind a smoke billowing truck. The Prius has a recirculate button right on the steering wheel, which is perfect. The Model S does not have a recirculate touchon in the A/C controls area, but it does have an A/C on/off touchon, which does turn off the fan. I suppose this is better than nothing.
Failed
1. Door close action: I have written before (Nissan Leaf) that the Volt has the best door close action of any car I have interacted with. The doors will close themselves after just a slight nudge out of the hold detent. The model S has an extra hold detent close to the closed position that effectively “catches” the door before it closes. And there isn’t enough spring action left to close it after moving it out of this detent. After all the fuss and bother from Franz about the door handles, I am quite upset that they couldn’t get the door close right. Big Fail.
2. Displays in SI units: The firmware in the beta unit in the store has an option to display distance in miles or km. However, nothing visible happens on the screen. On the test car the option was not in the same place, and the co-pilot did not know and could not find a place to change either distance or speed.
3. Tyre pressure display: The co-pilot did not know and could not find how to display the tyre pressures on the centre screen.
4. Regeneration cut-out speed: In the Volt regen stops at 5 km/h. On the Model S, it was between 7 and 6 mph (see above) so, probably at 10 km/h.
5. Rear visibility: The hatch window looks really small in the rear view mirror. The Volt’s is already small compared to the Prius, but the Model S is almost not worth the effort. I also found that the driver side mirror does not adjust far enough out to cover the 7 to 9 o’clock area.
6. Brake override: See why (Toyota Settles Over Death of Family in High-Speed Crash - NYTimes.com), and how (About Toyota | Our News | Toyota Evaluates Unintended Acceleration Complaints in Remedied Vehicles). GM also (GM to Expand Brake Override Software Globally by 2012). In order to simulate stopping the car with a stuck accelerator, my usual test procedure is to start by flooring the accelerator with my right foot, accelerate to 100 km/h and then apply the brakes firmly with my left foot while holding the accelerator down. Even in cars without brake override, the brakes are strong enough to bring the car to a controlled stop pretty quickly. The Model S failed this test in the most unexpected and unusual way. The test route didn’t have enough space to perform this at 100 km/h, so I started at about 70 km/h / 40 mph. The brakes prevented further acceleration, but did not slow the car. I was about to abort the test, when it slowly started to decelerate, so I kept going. This was probably due to better friction from the pads as they warmed up. Then, at somewhere between 30 and 20 mph, and 3 to 5 seconds after braking, the car suddenly came to a violent stop. This startled me and upset the co-pilot tremendously! It is entirely possible that I didn’t push the brakes hard enough, but there wasn’t enough space or time to try again and the co-pilot certainly wasn’t in the mood. However, I would then argue that the force required for maximum braking is too high, and that the abrupt stop at the end indicates that I did push hard enough. So, it appears that the brakes are not powerful enough, and if there is a motor power reduction, it takes far, far too long to trigger (should be < 0.5 s). Huge Fail. I’ve been encouraged to, and will try to get an explanation of this behaviour from HQ. (Update: With Tesla Engineering as of Aug 1)
Untested
1. Sun visor extension: I wanted to check that the sun visor swivel arm can extend so that the visor can reach the B-pillar, but fussing over the speed display distracted me and took too much time.
2. Interior noise level: The intention was to measure A-weighted and C-weighted noise at 80 and 100 km/h, but the practice run revealed that there would be time for only one measurement. Unfortunately operator error resulted in no measurement taken. For reference, the Volt noise levels are: 59 dB-A and 81 dB-C at 80 km/h and 61 dB-A and 82 dB-C at 100 km/h on new asphalt. My perception was that the Model S is slightly quieter in the C-weighted range and significantly quieter in the A-weighted range. I suspect the air suspension has a lot to do with that.
3. Cruise control increment in km/h: This test was not performed because we could not get the speed display in km/h. Pass would be if the cruise control increments in 1 km/h steps if the speed display is in km/h and fail would be if it increments in 1.6 km/h steps.
4. Ease of parking: I am concerned about the width of the car when parking (particularly in narrow California parking spaces). Unfortunately all the spots on the approach to the staging area were taken.
Conclusion
I went to the drive expecting and hoping to be wowed, but was not. Maybe this is because the Volt is already so much better than most other cars that the Model S cannot be that much better. Or maybe the Volt is just a better fit to my needs and expectations. The Model S is a much bigger car than I need for daily single occupant commuting. I will keep my reservation and re-evaluate when the time to configure comes in the hope that the failed items are corrected and the untested items pass. Other items that could affect my decision include adding creep, adding a poorly implemented hill hold, interior lighting changes, lack of front proximity sensors and collision avoidance.
As others have said, the Model S is simply too expensive a car to use for one, at most two hours a day and not meet all my expectations.
Graph 1: Model S Acceleration. Non-performance. Standard regen. 4 occupants.
Graph 2: Volt Acceleration. Normal mode, L regen. 2 occupants.
Graph 3: Volt Acceleration. Normal mode, L regen. 1 occupant.
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CyberDutchie
Active Member
Excellent review, I hope Tesla will read it. Please keep us informed if any of your questions get answered.
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AndyM
Member
Very nice technical review, J.
What did you use to capture the acceleration data?
Do you think the acceleration graph was affected by the test drive car's software limit of 75 (80?) mph?
I'm very glad to see your experience with the cruise control - it's one item I didn't get the chance to review. And you answered someone's question on the "bug" on the dial!
I had been told by a rep that the speed increments are selectable at +/- 1, or +/- 5mph. So, it is quite possible that +/- 1 kph or +/- 5 kph are possible.
The SI units change should be possible (that would be a major gaffe to go without) and it could be that your copilot simply didn't know where to change it. You might have simply tried to tap the temperature display (upper left corner of main display) which switches the temperature displays between SI to English units. It might affect the dash display units - my speculation. I think I need another "test" drive...
I hope you will be sharing what Tesla responds to you about the brake override. It won't affect me, personally, but I know that some people out there are trained to use two feet in a two-pedal auto (Improperly trained? Bring on the trolls!) or might accidentally get into this situation. It sounds like a software change could mitigate this risk in the Model S if needed.
Nice suggested additions, and I am sure they could be added in later. Your high reservation number gives you the opportunity to see those kinds of adds before your delivery.
I don't think the tyre pressure data missing counts as a "fail" item.
I would have reached different conclusions, because my expectations and scenario are different from yours; but I completely appreciate the data collection! Kudos!
-Andy
What did you use to capture the acceleration data?
Do you think the acceleration graph was affected by the test drive car's software limit of 75 (80?) mph?
I'm very glad to see your experience with the cruise control - it's one item I didn't get the chance to review. And you answered someone's question on the "bug" on the dial!
I had been told by a rep that the speed increments are selectable at +/- 1, or +/- 5mph. So, it is quite possible that +/- 1 kph or +/- 5 kph are possible.
The SI units change should be possible (that would be a major gaffe to go without) and it could be that your copilot simply didn't know where to change it. You might have simply tried to tap the temperature display (upper left corner of main display) which switches the temperature displays between SI to English units. It might affect the dash display units - my speculation. I think I need another "test" drive...
I hope you will be sharing what Tesla responds to you about the brake override. It won't affect me, personally, but I know that some people out there are trained to use two feet in a two-pedal auto (Improperly trained? Bring on the trolls!) or might accidentally get into this situation. It sounds like a software change could mitigate this risk in the Model S if needed.
Nice suggested additions, and I am sure they could be added in later. Your high reservation number gives you the opportunity to see those kinds of adds before your delivery.
I don't think the tyre pressure data missing counts as a "fail" item.
I would have reached different conclusions, because my expectations and scenario are different from yours; but I completely appreciate the data collection! Kudos!
-Andy
mnx
2018 M3P
I'm pretty sure I read (somewhere on these forums) that the brake override kicks in after 3 seconds. (I searched via the forums and google, but couldn't find it...) That would explain the behaviour perfectly.
I couldn't find anything referencing, 3 seconds, but I did find that the Model S does indeed have brake override...
"Model S is equipped with additional safety systems. For
example, the Model S is equipped with brake override where the controller gives priority to
brake pedal input over accelerator input. If the brake pedal is pressed after the accelerator, the
controller will ignore the accelerator inputs and respond only to the brake signal"
(Regulations.gov)
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Wasn't there a story that someone had done this at the first Amped event (Freemont) and an official Tesla statement saying that there had been an incident with an "operator handling error" (or something similar) and then something like "after 3 seconds the car was stopped" or something like that? I remember reading that. I agree with JM above though, brake must always and IMMEDIATELY override gas. Especially since there is no direct acess park/hand brake. Should be mostly software I guess?
mnx
2018 M3P
Thank you, you helped me find it...
"The customer claimed that the 'throttle misbehaved'. Tesla looked up the logs and told the customer that 'you had pressed the throttle and the brake at the SAME time for longer than 3 seconds, so we automatically disengaged the throttle. That is why your speed was only 15 mph when the incident took place and not 55 mph'. "
interesting story from test drive at factory
So I retract my earlier comment about 3 seconds... This doesn't explicitly say you need to press both pedals for 3 seconds for the accel/brake override to engage.
"The customer claimed that the 'throttle misbehaved'. Tesla looked up the logs and told the customer that 'you had pressed the throttle and the brake at the SAME time for longer than 3 seconds, so we automatically disengaged the throttle. That is why your speed was only 15 mph when the incident took place and not 55 mph'. "
interesting story from test drive at factory
So I retract my earlier comment about 3 seconds... This doesn't explicitly say you need to press both pedals for 3 seconds for the accel/brake override to engage.
Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
Okay, just want to be extra double sure that the blue there is really blue, and not black. Because it sure looks black in the picture!
Also, the blue car in Palo Alto had the 19" wheels.Do you, by any chance, have larger copies that you'd be willing to share? PM me if you don't want to post.
Thanks!
Okay, just want to be extra double sure that the blue there is really blue, and not black. Because it sure looks black in the picture!
Do you, by any chance, have larger copies that you'd be willing to share? PM me if you don't want to post.
Thanks!
Believe it or not, yes, that is the blue car. At that time, I was on the shade side of the cars, and the blue is definitely dark (will look similar to black when out of bright sunshine). All four cars had the 21" wheels on Saturday (three silver, one grey set).
I will PM you the larger pictures, including a few more that might be useful, when I get home tonight (have a client dinner, so it will be late). I also have a picture from a similar vantage point of both the blue and black together, and at first glance, it is hard to tell them apart.
I used the free version of g-tac on the iPhone (App Store - g-tac free). The accelerometer on the iPhone is very noisy, so the app uses a low pass filter with a long time constant to filter it. That unfortunately takes away some of the precision and responsiveness, but it gets the job done.
I don't think the speed limit affected anything - I only accelerated up to 65 mph.
I checked the Mercedes Benz manual just now and it seems that there is an extra up and down detent on the stalk that will do +/- 5 mph or +/- 10 km/h. Wish I knew that ahead of time.
As I said in the introduction, I tried to focus on the things that haven't been discussed much by other reviewers, so please don't think that I will make my final conclusions and decision on these items alone.
Thank you for that reference. I read it when it was first discovered, but have forgotten about it. I included it in my inquiry to Tesla.
I did, but I don't think he knew what it meant or what to expect. And since I expected a completely different outcome, I did not think it necessary to explain further. Next time.
My wife was dead set on getting the blue (her favourite colour), but after the third time identifying the blue as black, she agreed that we should consider something else. Now we are wrestling between Pearl White (her) and Brown (me). Unfortunately she has a negative association with brown due to her work in the medical field...Okay, just want to be extra double sure that the blue there is really blue, and not black. Because it sure looks black in the picture!
AndyM
Member
Thanks for the reply, J! And for the reasoned thought. I think I understood your use of "conclusions" correctly, and meant it the same in return.
If I read one more thread that drags on the cup-holder issue, I might explode.
If I read one more thread that drags on the cup-holder issue, I might explode.
Yeah, that's the blue. Zowie. I know it's dark but that really drives it home! Thanks for the pix.
Yeah, I wish that there was an option for a brighter blue, like BMW's "Estoril Blue". I bet some brighter colors will come in later years, with Sunset Red being the first. I still like the current blue, because I think the car is pretty in black, and to me, because the blue is metallic, when you mis-read it as black, it looks like a richer black than the actual black.J in MN said:
Norbert
TSLA will win
Although I knew the Model S lets the brake take precedence over the accelerator, I didn't even understand your test report (though I admit reading it with little time). I thought you were complaining plainly about the brake force depending on speed, and found that slightly disturbing but very unlikely to be anything else than pilot error or exagerration. In fact, I'd like to suggest you edit your previous post to clarify this for all those who are not as familiar with the expression "brake override".
On the issue itself, without being an expert on this matter at all, I'd think the power to the accelerator should always immediately be cut off, except in so far as it would make the car go backwards on a hill when the brake force isn't sufficient to prevent that (because you are letting go of the brake). But there might be many other factors playing into this which I don't know about.
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Agreed it was difficult to ascertain what the poster was trying to convey. The poster should describe that he was using two feet to perform this test, assuming that's what he did.
Excellent review nevertheless.
Larry
Does this help? "In order to simulate stopping the car with a stuck accelerator, my usual test procedure is to start by flooring the accelerator with my right foot, accelerate to 100 km/h and then apply the brakes firmly with my left foot while holding the accelerator down. "
Thank you . Sorry that I could not get the noise measurement(s) done.
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