FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Supcom]

I think I’m noticing a difference when they are supposedly testing the current software on version 12s neural net. I’ve noticed a few times that the car would actually creep from a stop at 1 mph versus waiting till zero but sometimes it will wait till zero.

I'm thinking that this is not the case. Extremely doubtful that Tesla would have V12 code actually control your car.

 

[drtimhill]

I bought FSD in 2019.I have first hand experience with FSDb from this spring in the US if one needs that to have an opinion. I have also taken a Waymo.

But a LOT has happened with FSDb since spring, so your experiences of FSDb are way out of date. And "taken a Waymo" doesnt sound like a particularly good sample size to be honest. Perhaps you should be a little less dogmatic about your assertions?

 

[jebinc]

But a LOT has happened with FSDb since spring, so your experiences of FSDb are way out of date. And "taken a Waymo" doesnt sound like a particularly good sample size to be honest. Perhaps you should be a little less dogmatic about your assertions?

Waymo, Wayme, Waythis…

 

[Therealm80]

I'm thinking that this is not the case. Extremely doubtful that Tesla would have V12 code actually control your car.

I thought the same thing however, in these threads people were talking about Tesla possibly testing the neural net portion of FSD on version 11

 

[spacecoin]

But a LOT has happened with FSDb since spring, so your experiences of FSDb are way out of date. And "taken a Waymo" doesnt sound like a particularly good sample size to be honest. Perhaps you should be a little less dogmatic about your assertions?

A LOT, really? Are you serious??? Not to the better, looking at the data.

What exactly is better in the latest version than in May?

Can you specify exactly what’s dogmatic about calling out “robotaxi never”, when hardly anyone here believes it anymore?

Have you been in a robotaxi? Even once? Do you understand the effort needed to remove the human from the loop?

 

[mgs333]

What exactly are we even arguing about anymore?

 

[JulienW]

What exactly are we even arguing about anymore?

I'm arguing with my friend about the fate of the universe. I say it will die of Heat Death in 10 to the power of 106 years. She say it will be sooner by the Big Rip in 10 to the power of 100 years. Obviously she doesn't know what the hell she is talking about.

 

[aronth5]

Apple and oranges indeed, and also incorrect.

The Waymo Driver likely wouldn’t drive, but it could if they turned off the safety requirements that Tesla doesn’t have nor care about. I am certain the Waymo Driver will beat FSD in any environment over a few hundred trips, and that should be obvious to anyone.

Tesla FSD on the other hand can’t drive anywhere autonomously. Do you think hw3/hw4 ever will? If so in what type of roads/environment and at what speed? I will bet anyone any amount of money that FSD won’t be autonomous L3+ with Tesla taking liability in any meaningful ODD by the end of 2025.

Again, let me know when FSD handles stop signs and red lights consistently if ever.

Two questions for you
1, How many drives have you done using FSD?
2. How many Waymo rides have you taken?

My answers are:
1. Every drive
2. Zero since Waymo isn't available here

 

[Tronguy]

Good to know that FSD is not bad on the traffic to Boston from NJ. I am planning a long trip around Nov10th from my DC area to Boston area and back. Last time when I went to Providence had issues on Merritt pkwy and NY bridges. We will see this time.
FSD is constantly shifting lanes in bumper to bumper on my frequent drives to Richmond and RTP area in NC. Entrance merge lanes and work zone merge lanes are horrible with FSD for me.

Um. So, first off, I'm running 11.4.4. When I got the new car it came with 11.3.6, which was Brought Back Bad Memories: abrupt steering, swinging wide right on left turns (even worse than 11.4.4), and, well, not so great; before I got rid of the old M3, it was on 11.4.7.2, I think.

11.4.4 is smoother on turns and handles highway miles pretty darn well; on the Merritt it swung back and forth between passing and traveling lanes and would definitely get out of the way of cars coming up from the rear.

Now, when running around through the interstices of Boston roads.. well, I would let it do its thing if the traffic wasn't too bad, but if things were getting decidedly hairy, I'd take over and drive. Having said that, 11.4.4 went through a number of traffic circles without incident.

But I was still intervening on city streets; oh, say, about once every three to five miles or so. With occasional ten mile or more stints, depending upon traffic, lane markings, and construction. On interstates, pretty much no interventions.

So, don't get the idea that I think the system is faultless: It is a Beta. But compared to, say, Spring of 2022, it's pretty darn good.

 

[Dennisis]

What exactly are we even arguing about anymore?

Old as time, laying it on the stump.

 

[Tronguy]

A LOT, really? Are you serious??? Not to the better, looking at the data.

What exactly is better in the latest version than in May?

Can you specify exactly what’s dogmatic about calling out “robotaxi never”, when hardly anyone here believes it anymore?

Have you been in a robotaxi? Even once? Do you understand the effort needed to remove the human from the loop?

OK. You're in Europe. I did a quick duck-duck-go search on Tesla FSD availability in Europe. Interestingly, there was a flurry of news articles dated around late May/early June that said that, according to some of the firmware trackers and a statement or two from Musk that it was coming. But, apparently, as near as I can tell, for in-company testers. And it stated something along the lines of, "Pending regulatory approval."

On that last: Back in 2022 there was a definite, "No!" from the regulators in Germany. Something about that all lane changes had to be within a minimum time. At the time the Beta program in the U.S. had been started in late 2021 and was adding tons of new users (I was one) in that 2022 time frame.

So.. nothing in the Duck-Duck-Go search said anything about general availability. Now, it's possible that you've paid for FSD. But I'm kind of wondering what release you're actually running.

 

[jebinc]

A LOT, really? Are you serious??? Not to the better, looking at the data.

What exactly is better in the latest version than in May?

Can you specify exactly what’s dogmatic about calling out “robotaxi never”, when hardly anyone here believes it anymore?

Have you been in a robotaxi? Even once? Do you understand the effort needed to remove the human from the loop?

Nothing, nothing is better. In fact , things are worse. Take, for example, wipers that no longer work. We have that now, but didn’t in May.

 

[Yelobird]

Nothing, nothing is better. In fact , things are worse. Take, for example, wipers that no longer work. We have that now, but didn’t in May.

Drove near a thousand miles this week with not a single wiper issue. May consider taking it in to complain to the service team.

 

[MarcG]

Anecdotally, my Waymo rides with no human driver (sample size in the dozens) have been MUCH smoother than any FSD drive I’ve ever taken (sample size in the hundreds).

Of course, FSD is able to hop on the freeways and take me places Waymo still cannot. And FSD is pretty darn good on freeways now, the only annoyance being constant nags.

But when it comes to in-city drives, Waymo is hands down a lot further ahead than Tesla.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

the only annoyance being constant nags.

And having to disengage whenever encountering stopped or slowing traffic. So annoying.

 

[kabin]

What exactly are we even arguing about anymore?

Maybe rhetorical or to suggest there's nothing to argue about? Naw, I'll try to catch you up.

There are arguments about whether owners should complain about FSD, whether there's any hope for HW3/HW4, why most minds aren't blown, will pure vision work, why there are so many more safety issues than a human driver, why so much system latency, if TSLA can ever find perfect training data, why so many regressions, why v11 releases mostly suck, why it takes so long for a real release, why so many recent bug releases without significant bug fixes, WTF is going on with dry wipers, why they can't figure out turn signals, why lane selection is so difficult, why stop 30 ft in front of a stop sign, why crawl to an intersection, why wait in an intersection with oncoming cars, why pull in front of fast moving traffic, how can FSD not see pedestrians/vehicles/curbs/etc, how can we still have phantom braking, why is FSD running traffic lights/stop signs, why can't we have smooth braking/accel/steering, why doesn't FSD correctly use regen, why there's little to no FSD transparency on FSD take rate/profits, why no company released info on accidents/deaths, ad hominen arguments, conspiracy theory distractions, who the heck has FSD and isn't an engineer, who works for GM/etc, who isn't credible, ...

 

[Tronguy]

Maybe rhetorical or to suggest there's nothing to argue about? Naw, I'll try to catch you up.

There are arguments about whether owners should complain about FSD, whether there's any hope for HW3/HW4, why most minds aren't blown, will pure vision work, why there are so many more safety issues than a human driver, why so much system latency, if TSLA can ever find perfect training data, why so many regressions, why v11 releases mostly suck, why it takes so long for a real release, why so many recent bug releases without significant bug fixes, WTF is going on with dry wipers, why they can't figure out turn signals, why lane selection is so difficult, why stop 30 ft in front of a stop sign, why crawl to an intersection, why wait in an intersection with oncoming cars, why pull in front of fast moving traffic, how can FSD not see pedestrians/vehicles/curbs/etc, how can we still have phantom braking, why is FSD running traffic lights/stop signs, why can't we have smooth braking/accel/steering, why doesn't FSD correctly use regen, why there's little to no FSD transparency on FSD take rate/profits, why no company released info on accidents/deaths, ad hominen arguments, conspiracy theory distractions, who the heck has FSD and isn't an engineer, who works for GM/etc, who isn't credible, ...

And, as we're seeing over the past couple of days, whether one or more posters are Pure Trolls or Agents of an Evil Empire.. which makes all of the above even harder to sort.

And what's good about all this discussion? For those of us who hang out here, it makes our driving around with FSD-b safer. If one knows or suspects where the bad things in life are, then one has a fighting chance of avoiding said bad things, or at least Not Panicking and reacting properly when a Bad Thing happens.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I thought the same thing however, in these threads people were talking about Tesla possibly testing the neural net portion of FSD on version 11

That's because Musk has stated several times that the 11.4.7.x codestream uses the NN already - to what extent no one is sure though.

 

[FSDtester#1]

This is a bold statement from me, since 11.3.6 was always my favorite.
I think 11.4.7.3 is the best we will get until the v12 branch.
I have had a bunch of improvements, and very few dry wipes.
I keep it in aggressive mode, and boy does it like to change lanes, even appropriately most times, with small gaps. The late braking is my biggest complaint.
Also, why can't MS owners adjust regen like others. The MY regen is far superior to the S. The windshield wipers are also. They actually clean your windshield on the Y. I bought some RainX wipers. 2 sizes for the S, 26 and 20 inches. They are way better than oem blades. Still not as good as the Y.

 

[willow_hiller]

And having to disengage whenever encountering stopped or slowing traffic. So annoying.

Thanks for reminding us that you have very different standards for how FSD Beta should drive. I've never disengaged it just for stopped or slowing traffic.