FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[JulienW]

Yes FSD Beta should NEVER cross the double yellow line. Had I been driving there was plenty of space to get through without crossing and I would have run that truck driver over too. I think all the "I never cross double yellow line" people DON'T live in a city.

 

[Dewg]

Yes FSD Beta should NEVER cross the double yellow line. Had I been driving there was plenty of space to get through without crossing and I would have run that truck driver over too. I think all the "I never cross double yellow line" people DON'T live in a city.

I think this is a simple solution for people. If your car needs to cross a double-yellow, disengage the system and cross the double-yellow. Once you've finished your maneuver, re-engage. Problem solved.

 

[JulienW]

I think this is a simple solution for people. If your car needs to cross a double-yellow, disengage the system and cross the double-yellow. Once you've finished your maneuver, re-engage. Problem solved.

FSD did that so I didn't need to disengage. Not the point since earlier in this thread there were people saying that FSD or ANY human driver should NEVER cross a double yellow line.

FSD crosses double yellow lines for me almost EVERY day (I posted couple of examples a couple of days ago and got blowback). That is the reality of driving in a city.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Wait. I missed the context of the conversation.

Is anyone saying that FSDB shouldn't cross a double yellow?

It's a requirement for the car to actually drive everywhere. There are numerous situations in cities where you have no other choice.

 

[Dewg]

Wait. I missed the context of the conversation.

Is anyone saying that FSDB shouldn't cross a double yellow?

It's a requirement for the car to actually drive everywhere. There are numerous situations in cities where you have no other choice.

And the regulatory bodies are going to be super thrilled with ADAS systems breaking local traffic laws? How long was it before NHTSA crawled down Tesla's throat when they introduced rolling stops?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Wait. I missed the context of the conversation.

Is anyone saying that FSDB shouldn't cross a double yellow?

It's a requirement for the car to actually drive everywhere. There are numerous situations in cities where you have no other choice.

Only people who think FSD should be a driver assist think it shouldn’t cross double yellow lines. Obviously robotaxis will need to cross double yellows.

 

[uscbucsfan]

And the regulatory bodies are going to be super thrilled with ADAS systems breaking local traffic laws? How long was it before NHTSA crawled down Tesla's throat when they introduced rolling stops?

Rolling stops is not even close to passing an obstruction on a double yellow in a city. Most states have provisions for it to be allowed "when safe".

 

[uscbucsfan]

Only people who think FSD should be a driver assist think it shouldn’t cross double yellow lines. Obviously robotaxis will need to cross double yellows.

It would be required with L4 driver assist as well.

Welp...the trip ended, there's a truck unloading on this road. Too bad.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It would be required with L4 driver assist as well.

Welp...the trip ended, there's a truck unloading on this road. Too bad.

L4 is not driver assist.

 

[uscbucsfan]

L4 is not driver assist.

True. Brain fart.

 

[Dewg]

Rolling stops is not even close to passing an obstruction on a double yellow in a city. Most states have provisions for it to be allowed "when safe".

And rolling stops aren't any more hazardous than crossing a double-yellow into an oncoming lane of traffic, and can be easily done "when safe", and yet NHTSA wasn't happy about it - I wonder why...

 

[uscbucsfan]

Luckily FSDB does and has always passed on double yellow. The issue is when it want's to do it in an unnecessary situation, like someone stopped at a stop sign or red light. I've had this multiple times and we've seen V12 do this for Whole Mars.

 

[uscbucsfan]

And rolling stops aren't any more hazardous than crossing a double-yellow into an oncoming lane of traffic, and can be easily done "when safe", and yet NHTSA wasn't happy about it - I wonder why...

Rolling stops aren't a requirement in any scenario...passing on a double yellow is. It's apples to hand grenades.

 

[Dewg]

Rolling stops aren't a requirement in any scenario...passing on a double yellow is. It's apples to hand grenades.

Okay, I give up.

 

[Knightshade]

Only people who think FSD should be a driver assist think it shouldn’t cross double yellow lines. Obviously robotaxis will need to cross double yellows.

RTs are required to follow all traffic laws in every jurisdiction in the US they are allowed to operate.

So obviously robotaxis will not cross double yellows- ever- because they'd be breaking the law and removed from the road.

 

[fasteddie7]

I can think of tons of situations where crossing the yellow line is necessary. Construction is one, where a one lane road is closed and traffic takes turns using the same lane in opposite directions, An emergency vehicle hauling people around, etc. it some scenarios it would be dangerous for other drivers to not cross the line.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I think the double yellow is misunderstood. I can't find a state that it's not legal to do so in specific conditions:

Turning left
When directed to

I've just randomly Googled, but Ohio, Maryland, Wisconsin South Carolina, and California

Most of those also have when there's obstruction (California did not state that where I could read it)

Ohio and Wisconsin say if something is traveling less than half the speed limit.

The point is that double yellow is not an absolute and I'd say most, if not all, places have exceptions for it.

From everything I've seen rolling stops are never legal, anywhere in the US, but some states do not enforce it.

 

[Dewg]

I think the double yellow is misunderstood. I can't find a state that it's not legal to do so in specific conditions:

Turning left
When directed to

I've just randomly Googled, but Ohio, Maryland, Wisconsin South Carolina, and California

Most of those also have when there's obstruction (California did not state that where I could read it)

Ohio and Wisconsin say if something is traveling less than half the speed limit.

The point is that double yellow is not an absolute and I'd say most, if not all, places have exceptions for it.

From everything I've seen rolling stops are never legal, anywhere in the US, but some states do not enforce it.

https://www.keglawyers.com/double-yellow-lines-vehicle-code-21460

 

[uscbucsfan]

https://www.keglawyers.com/double-yellow-lines-vehicle-code-21460

Ah, so maybe everywhere has avoiding an obstruction?

Regardless, crossing double yellow is a requirement to drive.

 

[Dewg]

I can think of tons of situations where crossing the yellow line is necessary. Construction is one, where a one lane road is closed and traffic takes turns using the same lane in opposite directions, An emergency vehicle hauling people around, etc. it some scenarios it would be dangerous for other drivers to not cross the line.

In both your examples, there would be provisions for it. In the construction case, there would be cones up to create new lanes to route traffic safely. In the emergency vehicle there would be police directing traffic around the accident, sometimes with cones or flares to help.