FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Knightshade]

Of course there hasn't been a recent update so evaluations have dried up and that always presents the opportunity to suggest things aren't that bad. But reality is much different. V11.x releases have been unsafe

Can you cite any accidents caused by V11.x releases to support the claim it's actually unsafe versus, say, the more likely explaination that "some especially nervous drivers FEEL it's unsafe despite having had no accidents with it"?

unpredictable, uncomfortable

Hugely YMMV of course.

I agreed earlier lane selection, particularly, can be poor and indeed unpredictable- but almost always in a way quite trivially easy to correct for in my experience at least.

Uncomfortable has NOT been my experience, other than as I mentioned I wish it wasn't quite so slow around stop signs, and maybe that it accelerated from red lights a bit quicker....but you've got guys like Alan who repeatedly claim the braking is too harsh or whatever- as I say very subjective stuff there and you'll never make EVERYONE happy on that kind of thing so hopefully we get more granular behavior settings on this stuff eventually.

u
, and of late there's been no signs of significant improvement for something that has so far to go to be a relaxing $15k feature for safe roadway use.

To me it's been more relaxing than manual driving for a long time now, even if a small % of the time I need to do something manually- that still means most of the time I DO NOT have to other than monitoring- which I'd be doing anyway if driving manually.... this despite remaining VERY far from >L2 outside highways. Course I also paid a lot less than 15k for it (so did most people).

 

[amadeusneo]

I am shocked. Just shocked that papa Elon said we would be getting 11.4.7 this past weekend and there’s nothing.

 

[kpanda17]

Having been on 11.4.2 for what seems like yeeeeeeears now it seems to be ebbing back up again quality. It was decent to start and seemed to get progressively worse. In the last couple of weeks it seems to be better. I had 2 really good in city drives Saturday and 2 Sunday. Today I've had 2 also. Now I have probably jinxed it and will eat crow pie.

What code are you on now?

 

[Twiglett]

I am shocked. Just shocked that papa Elon said we would be getting 11.4.7 this past weekend and there’s nothing.

yeah - looks like 11.4.7 turned into another 11.4.5
Not even good enough to warrant a YouTube release.
Oh well, here's hoping 11.4.8 makes the cut.

 

[fasteddie7]

yeah - looks like 11.4.7 turned into another 11.4.5
Not even good enough to warrant a YouTube release.
Oh well, here's hoping 11.4.8 makes the cut.

I’m going to guess that if there is another 11.4.x it’ll only serve to squash some critical bug map data can’t be tweaked for, and v11 is being put out to pasture. if v12 is the total rewrite that is suggested, there would be no reason to spend engineering time and energy on it since it is a dead end, and all efforts are going toward v12 now.

 

[swedge]

Don't quite get it. If one reads this sub-forum, one gets the idea that the FSD-b is completely unreliable, a threat to public safety, full of bugs, and dangerous as all get out.

523 Pages into this V11 thread, you make a good point.

A couple observations on the issue. First is selection bias. We are beta testers, and I consider my job to report bugs, errors, neuroses, etc. Mostly I report them to Tesla via their feedback channels, but at each new version, I note a few repeatable problems I check on to see if those have improved. I review this thread to see situations where I should be cautious. The thread has a negative bias because that is what it is most useful for.

Second is that some use the thread as a product review, which posts I ignore. Those of us who share observations of problems know to skip past the review style posts.

Third, a recent study found than many Americans are unable to read a statement and distinguish statements of fact from statements of opinion. We saw a lot of that here when Elon would state his opinion, and folks would criticize him for making promises. We also see assertions of safety issues, when folks are actually describing something that made them uncomfortable. So the issue of confusing opinion and fact extends to the writing as well as the reading.

I've written before that I think FSD development is proceeding in phases. First comes safety, and later comes comfort. To get safety fully tested, they need it to experience cases of close calls, and these happen less when driving defensively. So it doesn't drive defensively yet. It waits to slow down for traffic ahead, knowing it can break hard if needed. It doesn't adjust it's position to stay our of others' blind spots, because it watches all the time and can react quickly enough if an adjacent car starts to drift. It doesn't slow down to let merging traffic in smoothly. All of these will be easy to improve when they tackle comfort.

And comfort will be a necessary step to gain market acceptance and success. So that will come, I figure. But for now, teaching FSD to deal with tough situations means we will see it drive into tough situations.

As for the haters, I prefer to not feed the trolls.

 

[Tronguy]

Give me a DM the next time you’re in Los Angeles and bring some Dramamine and Ativan.

We'll see. I have an offspring in that town and make it out there from time to time, but not on any kind of regular basis. Despite the carping around these parts, it's fairly likely we'll see an update in a month or less, so, by the time I might be out there, we may be on to Even Bigger Discussions on this thread .

 

[bobsmy]

Can you cite any accidents caused by V11.x releases to support the claim it's actually unsafe versus, say, the more likely explaination that "some especially nervous drivers FEEL it's unsafe despite having had no accidents with it"?

Thirty five mph road this morning. Traffic light ahead was red. car continued to accelerate until I intervened to do a hard stop just at the stop line. Display did not indicate a stop. No accident was no accident.

 

[mtndrew1]

We'll see. I have an offspring in that town and make it out there from time to time, but not on any kind of regular basis. Despite the carping around these parts, it's fairly likely we'll see an update in a month or less, so, by the time I might be out there, we may be on to Even Bigger Discussions on this thread .

You can see my two year, seven segment FSD testing results and the related google map at the following link.

FSD Testing

 

[jebinc]

You can see my two year, seven segment FSD testing results and the related google map at the following link.

FSD Testing

Great data logging effort!

 

[Knightshade]

You can see my two year, seven segment FSD testing results and the related google map at the following link.

FSD Testing

Terribly curious regarding what you're intervening for typically.... your rate seems INCREDIBLY high compared to me experience, but you're also driving in a vastly different area than I.

 

[JulienW]

What code are you on now?

Sorry, typo. Meant 11.4.4.

 

[GWord]

Desperate ad hominens continue. Sigh...

Bottom line - when customers spend good money for top of the line TSLA products and, in return, get junk they deserve to be heard. The ball is in TSLA's court.

As a philosophical counterpoint: Heard by who though? This ain’t TSLA. We’re just a bunch of randos on the internet.

There’s this crazy dude that had some sort of beef with a co-tenant corp in the same high rise my employer uses. Once a week he would stand out front and yell his grievances at all passers by. Does that dude deserve to be heard by me, a random dude walking by on the street? This probably marks me as a psychopath but generally I don’t give a s_ about someone else’s experience, doubly so if it’s being force fed to me every other opportunity. I should probably apply for Tesla customer service.

 

[boonedocks]

Of course there hasn't been a recent update so evaluations have dried up and that always presents the opportunity to suggest things aren't that bad. But reality is much different. V11.x releases have been unsafe, unpredictable, uncomfortable, and of late there's been no signs of significant improvement for something that has so far to go to be a relaxing $15k feature for safe roadway use. For many it all comes down to how FSD performs now not some time later when and if a mindblowing version x.y.z hits the road. Until then it's an embarrassment that my family doesn't want used while they are car occupants.

still happy I cancelled my FSD subscription!! And have the latest Software update which I am MUCH happier with than FSD B for sure

 

[mtndrew1]

Terribly curious regarding what you're intervening for typically.... your rate seems INCREDIBLY high compared to me experience, but you're also driving in a vastly different area than I.

Interventions are accelerator or brake applications for blocking traffic.

Disengagements are steering overrides (edit: or panic brake events) to prevent a likely collision (like pulling out into traffic in front of an oncoming truck, for example).

Anyway all seven segments are very typical urban LA driving with nothing bizarre thrown in for fun. It remains absolutely useless and is not becoming more useful over time in any meaningful way.

We’ll see what 11.4.69.420.80085 brings whenever it gets to HW4 on my new car.

 

[PACEMD]

V17 will apparently be VTOL with rocket boosters.. I’ve seen the presentation.
/s

VTOL, right, but don't forget the drone and submersible capabilities. V17 will clearly have all those features. Nags notwithstanding...........

 

[PACEMD]

I still remember 10.3 "blowing my mind" the morning I installed and drove to work.

Now you know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall

 

[Madmolecule]

Hey neighbor, I never wanted to be a beta tester, or an R&D investor. I thought I had purchased a product that was very very close to being finished.
now I have to test it, cover all the costs, pay for the insurance, accept all liability for an alleged "Beta at best product" without the hopes of ever getting V4 hardware.
For any of you that still buy the FSD kickstarter hype, what do you believe the accurate timeline for when Tesla and Elon will provide FSD on my 2018 model 3. How many years should a customer wait on Christmas before it was all BS is the only reasonable answer. Did any of you enthusiasts think in 2018 that 2025 would be an acceptable or legal delivery date for a "product", not a dream that was sold in 2018?

 

[PACEMD]

And we’ll finally have the “activate weapons” command available.

And the ejector seat? V18?

 

[aronth5]

I've been driving a gas car the last week without FSD and I miss FSD more than I expected. Took me a day to get my driving skills back. I pay as much attention to driving when using FSD but it's clearly a different skill set. I particularly miss FSD since I'm driving in new places and don't know the road layout.