FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688951180561653760

interesting look at the view between HW3 and 4. Makes me wonder if 3 will ever be able to read signs, especially the illuminated construction ones.

Makes me wonder how diminished the value of HW3 cars will be in the future.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Makes me wonder how diminished the value of HW3 cars will be in the future.

Whether a Tesla has HW3 is well down the list of factors that affect the resale price of used Teslas. The dialogue on TMC is a constant back and between Tesla purists, many of whom regularly use FSDb. But the average Tesla driver has no idea what the advantage is of HW4 over HW3. And future purchasers are even more oblivious.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Frankly, I think they over focused on UPL guy and that situation, WHICH IS A VALID SITUATION, and less on overall situations that would have had a broader applicability.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess. Do I have that idiom right? (ESL)

Eh, Chuck has moved on to tending his beehives.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Whether a Tesla has HW3 is well down the list of factors that affect the resale price of used Teslas. The dialogue on TMC is a constant back and between Tesla purists, many of whom regularly use FSDb. But the average Tesla driver has no idea what the advantage is of HW4 over HW3. And future purchasers are even more oblivious.

Well, as you stated, I certainly care that I have the latest and greatest. That’s just me. Can’t believe I have this antique 2022 Y, what a joke!

 

[arnolddeleon]

11.4.4

Did parameters get tweaked? It seems there might have been an over correction to car diving into turns lanes. The car now appears to be failing to enter turns lanes when it needed to turn. I say appears because I've disengaged and corrected. These seem to happen when I'm leaving home. When I heading home it seems to do better (quite nice actually). Almost certainly just coincidence.

Also noticed that occasionally the car will have "double vision" with stop signs. Same stop has also appeared a single. Is the system failing to integrate the multiple cameras into a single reality or is it map data not matching vision? I'm guessing it's more the former. This is because there stop sign at curving road near my house and the car gets "surprised" by it these days. I think in the past they might have used map data so it anticipated it back then. There is "stop ahead" sign but the car is clearly not "seeing" those.

 

[D Good]

11.4.4

Did parameters get tweaked? It seems there might have been an over correction to car diving into turns lanes. The car now appears to be failing to enter turns lanes when it needed to turn. I say appears because I've disengaged and corrected. These seem to happen when I'm leaving home. When I heading home it seems to do better (quite nice actually). Almost certainly just coincidence.

Also noticed that occasionally the car will have "double vision" with stop signs. Same stop has also appeared a single. Is the system failing to integrate the multiple cameras into a single reality or is it map data not matching vision? I'm guessing it's more the former. This is because there stop sign at curving road near my house and the car gets "surprised" by it these days. I think in the past they might have used map data so it anticipated it back then. There is "stop ahead" sign but the car is clearly not "seeing" those.

Not noticing your first issue, I still have the opposite problem.
As for your second problem, yes, this has happened to me on occasion.

 

[JulienW]

Don’t waste your time with the emails. I sent 10 in the last two weeks. Zero action, and zero replies.

Had an epiphany on a sure fired way Tesla allows FSD Capability buyers to easily switch from 11.4.x to the current software with to 11.3.6.

All you have to do is trade in your current Tesla then buy a new Model 3 with the FSD Capability package transferred and voila you are switched. Tesla has made it so easy and convenient to switch that there is no need for fsdbeta@tesla

 

[zoomer0056]

Makes me wonder how diminished the value of HW3 cars will be in the future.

Just wait for HW5! Or 6, or any of the next tech just around the corner. I recently heard rumors of new hinges.

 

[jebinc]

Well, as you stated, I certainly care that I have the latest and greatest. That’s just me. Can’t believe I have this antique 2022 Y, what a joke!

My wife has an antique 2023 MY…. I have a 2021 MS Plaid that vibrates like a MoFo…

 

[jebinc]

Just wait for HW5! Or 6, or any of the next tech just around the corner. I recently heard rumors of new hinges.

New hinges?!
@WilliamG

 

[WilliamG]

New hinges?!
@WilliamG

Someone say hinges?! My body is ready.

In other seriousness, it’s amazing how we spend a fortune on FSD, and our reward is FSDj, and being stuck on February software. Talk about getting double screwed…

 

[kabin]

It’s true that both of these things occurred as a result.

The turn right is just an example of a skill which is not good enough (you only do this as a human when you need to - which is pretty infrequent).

The creep is definitely an essential skill (humans do it to obtain visibility). It’s just not nearly good enough. In a way the car should perform a creep way better than a human; it would go straight to the final limit with no actual creep - I’m not sure why it doesn’t do that better and inches forward - why does it take so long to figure it out, should not it take less than a second to figure out the exact right spot? But anyway, it would be disconcerting to a human to do it really quickly.

So it’s poorly implemented and also has a poor human-machine interface.

I don’t think either of these are really over fit - though the “right before left” I can see the argument, for sure.

And periodically stopping well short of the intersection/crosswalk making it unclear to other drivers WTF is going on. And at times, regardless of no traffic visibility, blasting into the intersection which is disconcerting to all drivers in and around the FSD vehicle.

 

[jebinc]

Someone say hinges?! My body is ready.

In other seriousness, it’s amazing how we spend a fortune on FSD, and our reward is FSDj, and being stuck on February software. Talk about getting double screwed…

Speaking of that dilemma…

 

[tmoz]

Well, as you stated, I certainly care that I have the latest and greatest. That’s just me. Can’t believe I have this antique 2022 Y, what a joke!

Not quite as bad as laptops just a few years ago where their shelf life was as bad as produce in the grocery store - Nobody wanted a 3 month old "new" laptop - too outdated. I had thought that HW3 was the Bee's knees, HW4 cameras do look amazing.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

And periodically stopping well short of the intersection/crosswalk making it unclear to other drivers WTF is going on. And at times, regardless of no traffic visibility, blasting into the intersection which is disconcerting to all drivers in and around the FSD vehicle.

Yeah. It is demonstrable complete dysfunction with an important skill like this that makes me wonder. Why would anyone who has used FSD Beta think that it is remotely close to anything even resembling L3? Yet, these people seem to exist (albeit in very small numbers so probably extremely low percentage of FSD Beta users)!

Obviously v12 will not get it done either - but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[Dewg]

Yeah. It is demonstrable complete dysfunction with an important skill like this that makes me wonder. Why would anyone who has used FSD Beta think that it is remotely close to anything even resembling L3? Yet, these people seem to exist (albeit in very small numbers so probably extremely low percentage of FSD Beta users)!

Obviously v12 will not get it done either - but that is a topic for another thread.

To be fair, L3 has a large ODD variable. Mercedes L3 has a very narrow ODD, and in my experience, current versions of FSD Beta could operate quite well in that exact same ODD. Put FSD Beta on a freeway, in heavy traffic, 35MPH or less, with a lead car, with Chill Mode and MLC enabled, with no navigation destination set. I think it would operate quite well. Several videos I've seen of the Mercedes L3 show the car being very "smooth" with lots of rubber banding, which is similar to how FSD Beta handles it.

 

[WilliamG]

Not quite as bad as laptops just a few years ago where their shelf life was as bad as produce in the grocery store - Nobody wanted a 3 month old "new" laptop - too outdated. I had thought that HW3 was the Bee's knees, HW4 cameras do look amazing.

To be fair, HW3's cameras were rubbish even when they came out in 2019. I was surprised to see $0.50 cameras still on there when I got one of the first HW3 Model 3s off the assembly line.

 

[jebinc]

Yeah. It is demonstrable complete dysfunction with an important skill like this that makes me wonder. Why would anyone who has used FSD Beta think that it is remotely close to anything even resembling L3? Yet, these people seem to exist (albeit in very small numbers so probably extremely low percentage of FSD Beta users)!

Obviously v12 will not get it done either - but that is a topic for another thread.

Yes, the v12 thead… that comes just before the v13 thread…

 

[jebinc]

To be fair, HW3's cameras were rubbish even when they came out in 2019. I was surprised to see $0.50 cameras still on there when I got one of the first HW3 Model 3s off the assembly line.

Those cheap camera are on our $150k Plaids as well….

 

[WilliamG]

Those cheap camera are on our $150k Plaids as well….

Indeed they are. They've been rubbish for years.