First P85D adopters stuck in black hole

[v12 to 12v]

I think the big stoppage occurred on December 2 as that is when mine went back into production. Those of us that were notified got told the day after. I know a few trickled into production before the December 8 email but I wasn't sure if they were also frozen.

That timing matches up fairly well with this.

L.A.-Long Beach dockworkers slow down on job, management says - LA Times

 

[wk057]

As of a few minutes ago got a response from Jerome... hope he doesn't mind me sharing because I did forget to ask.

I won't quote my original email to Jerome as it contains some personal details surrounding my reasons for needing a 2014 delivery to make this happen (summarized earlier in this thread anyway). I did make sure to note that my DS has been as helpful as possible.

I removed my DS's sales rep names as I have not seen many mention theirs by name here prior.

Jason:

Thank you for your message. I understand your frustration. We are at least as eager as you are to deliver your Model S! We will do everything to deliver your car in 2014.

Your P85D is currently in end of line inspections. I am copying on this message (DS name) and (Sales rep name) who are most familiar with your account and will keep you informed.

I realize that some of the earlier P85D customers are getting anxious about the longer production time for their cars. The delays are simply longer on the earlier cars: it takes ten times more labor and time to remove and replace parts from that car than to make it on the production line. We have pulled people from every part of Tesla and hired outside contractors overseen by Tesla personnel to do this. If there was something more we could do, we would do it. Any customer that has suggestions for adding more highly skilled labor to the process should please let us know. We were also just hit by the worst storm in a decade and trouble at the port of Oakland, where containers with parts needed to complete the cars are released on an unpredictable schedule.

Thank you for your understanding and your continued support and patience. Best regards,
Jerome Guillen I VP, WW sales and service

I replied immediately with a brief response:

Jerome,

Thank you for your response. It is appreciated.

If there is anything I can do on my end to ensure a 2014 delivery, please let me know. I hear others are taking delivery with non-next-gen seats as a speedup factor which would be fine by me.

I'm also not against flying to Fremont if absolutely needed to make 12/31/14, assuming the NJ resident tax exemption applied... (getting the federal credit but paying CA sales tax would be a net loss...)

Thanks again,

-Jason

Within 90 seconds I had another reply...

Understood!

(DS name) will contact you if there is anything additional which can be done.

I want to thank you personally for your understanding and your continued support. We are truly blessed to have great customers like you

While not any really new information, I guess I can't argue too much with getting a personal response from the sales VP as far as communication goes.

It does seem to confirm that some parts are being manually changed out on our cars, however.

Also confirms that Jerome is pulling hours on Sunday...

 

[AlMc]

If you take delivery in Cali you may be responsible for CAli sales tax.......not trying to be negative, just FYI.

Also, I am confident your car will be on the Devon bound truck that will leave the factory next week. A beverage of your choice on me if we cross paths at Devon.

 

[wk057]

If you take delivery in Cali you may be responsible for CAli sales tax.......not trying to be negative, just FYI.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that would be the case, but not 100% sure. For example, my fiance's P85 came from Florida and I was still able to utilize the NJ tax exemption.

Also, I am confident your car will be on the Devon bound truck that will leave the factory next week. A beverage of your choice on me if we cross paths at Devon.

Might have to take you up on that.

 

[v12 to 12v]

If you take delivery in Cali you may be responsible for CAli sales tax.......not trying to be negative, just FYI.

That is why I took delivery at home. I didn't want to lose my tax exempt status or pay California tax.

 

[Cottonwood]

If you take delivery in Cali you may be responsible for CAli sales tax.......not trying to be negative, just FYI.

Also, I am confident your car will be on the Devon bound truck that will leave the factory next week. A beverage of your choice on me if we cross paths at Devon.

There is an in-between, however. As I understand it, several have taken delivery in Las Vegas or Phoenix and not had to deal with delivery state sales tax issues. If you take this route, be sure to do your own investigation on tax consequences.

 

[wk057]

There is an in-between, however. As I understand it, several have taken delivery in Las Vegas or Phoenix and not had to deal with delivery state sales tax issues. If you take this route, be sure to do your own investigation on tax consequences.

Theres an idea.

On a side note, I guess I need to send Jerome some Nerf Missiles...

 

[ariporad]

On a side note, I guess I need to send Jerome some Nerf Missiles...

 

[redox]

It does seem to confirm that some parts are being manually changed out on our cars, however.

Yes, and by outside contractors.

If he ever gets to reply to me, since he's asking about customer suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd suggest they could give the option to the "black hole folks" to either:
1) get their cars "reworked" and into their hands as soon as the rework can possibly be done (this is what they are doing now)
or
2) rerun their order through the "tuned" production line, accepting the delay incurred by such process

They could always use the reworked cars as demo/loaner/service cars.

I suspect a few (many?) people would pick #2, so this would alleviate the pressure they're currently feeling on #1.

-- Greg

 

[zzzzdoc]

Being lied to...thats a strong statement. I havent heard that before - could you be more specific?

I've said far more than I care to, or typically would at this point. But I stand my my statements and will not elaborate further.

 

[pdx]

Yes, and by outside contractors.

If he ever gets to reply to me, since he's asking about customer suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd suggest they could give the option to the "black hole folks" to either:
1) get their cars "reworked" and into their hands as soon as the rework can possibly be done (this is what they are doing now)
or
2) rerun their order through the "tuned" production line, accepting the delay incurred by such process

They could always use the reworked cars as demo/loaner/service cars.

I suspect a few (many?) people would pick #2, so this would alleviate the pressure they're currently feeling on #1.

-- Greg

If given a choice, I would choose #2. I've been Production Complete since 11/26. I never got the email from Jerome, I read it here on TMC. My DS has not contacted me about seat options either, again I read that here on TMC. At this point I may wait and ask for a 2015 car with the heated steering wheel and have it assembled on the production line.

 

[wk057]

I'd go with whatever option got me delivery sooner. heh.

I have no doubt Tesla will stand behind their workmanship in any case, so that is not much of a concern for me.... and if there is a major issue there are always lemon laws...

I think it is in their best interest to get things right.

- - - Updated - - -

I think people cancelling and reordering due to the rework is quite possibly a reason it hasn't been detailed or disclosed much. It is definitely not in their best interest to have people doing this.

 

[v12 to 12v]

If given a choice, I would choose #2. I've been Production Complete since 11/26. I never got the email from Jerome, I read it here on TMC. My DS has not contacted me about seat options either, again I read that here on TMC. At this point I may wait and ask for a 2015 car with the heated steering wheel and have it assembled on the production line.

Considering the unusual supply chain issue regarding deliveries from the ports, it may be a case by case situation depending on what is delivered (or not) to Fremont on any given day.
There can also be issues getting shippers or trailers/containers for shipping cars to their destination.

 

[LaTache]

I have a theory as to what is going on with the early build P85D cars. My theory:

1. Pre December cars were built with the "faulty" next gen seats, but not delivered to customers.
2. Tesla determined that there was a problem with the seat air bags and stopped the production line.
3. Tesla re-started the line, substituing the older seats to get the cars built and shipped.
4. The pre-December cars need to be re-worked manually, the next-gen seats need to be removed and then the older seats installed. This is probably a messy and time consuming process and I am guessing that Tesla doesn't have the manpower to divert to this process.
5. Cars with higher VINs are being pumped out of the factory and delivered with the older seats while the early production VINs await rework.

Tesla's systems are probably not set up for the re-work step, so you can't get information as to where the cars are and when they will be done. Hence the poor communication and clueless responses by the DS team.

Again, my car does NOT have Next Gen seats and I am also lost in this black P85D hole. Been stuck in production since 11/25 and my delivery date changed from mid-Dec to late December last week with no more details. Still "in Production".

 

[apacheguy]

I'd go with whatever option got me delivery sooner. heh.

Please excuse my ignorance, but can you tell me why you must have delivery before 12/31/14? Is there some critical deadline, are you getting the car as a New Years gift for someone, or is it just a burning desire? I totally get the frustration part - I've been there with my Sig. Just trying to understand why when I read your correspondence with Jerome you seemed adamant about 12/31/14 as a deadline. Tesla has been known to miss deadlines, you know.

 

[NigelM]

Please excuse my ignorance, but can you tell me why you must have delivery before 12/31/14? Is there some critical deadline, are you getting the car as a New Years gift for someone, or is it just a burning desire? I totally get the frustration part - I've been there with my Sig. Just trying to understand why when I read your correspondence with Jerome you seemed adamant about 12/31/14 as a deadline.

You can utilize the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit only for the year in which you take delivery. Take delivery in 2015 and you dont't get the credit until after April 2016 for your 2015 tax year. Ergo, there's a financial incentive for customers to take delivery before 11.59pm 12/31/2014

 

[apacheguy]

You can utilize the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit only for the year in which you take delivery. Take delivery in 2015 and you dont't get the credit until after April 2016 for your 2015 tax year. Ergo, there's a financial incentive for customers to take delivery before 11.59pm 12/31/2014

Ah, yes.

 

[Andyw2100]

You can utilize the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit only for the year in which you take delivery. Take delivery in 2015 and you dont't get the credit until after April 2016 for your 2015 tax year. Ergo, there's a financial incentive for customers to take delivery before 11.59pm 12/31/2014

That was the least of it for WK057, Nigel.

I'm only following this casually, but without going back to re-read the reasons he has posted numerous times, I can add that for one he may not or won't qualify for the $7500 at all in 2015 and another issue is that he is moving out of NJ and will lose the 0% sales tax. He has other reasons as well, I believe. He wrote about them a few times in the P85D tracking thread.

 

[wk057]

Detailed my gripes earlier in this thread: First P85D adopters stuck in black hole - Page 2

In summary my reasons for needing in 2014: Can't use the $7500 credit for 2015, losing NJ resident tax exemption very soon into 2015.

Plus in the first week of 2015 it will be difficult for me to even take delivery at all around that time due to travel plans.

 

[LaTache]

At least Jerome more clearly states the real problem is with faulty parts in the early P85D's coming off the line and it is taking 10x longer to fix these early P85Ds vs cars that were manufactured later without any faulty parts. Problems seem to go beyond the airbag issue. Point is the early cars were clearly originally not manufactured properly and they are rushing the fixes as fast as they can, even if it takes outsiders without proper Tesla experience. Hmm...


I realize that some of the earlier P85D customers are getting anxious about the longer production time for their cars. The delays are simply longer on the earlier cars: it takes ten times more labor and time to remove and replace parts from that car than to make it on the production line. We have pulled people from every part of Tesla and hired outside contractors overseen by Tesla personnel to do this. If there was something more we could do, we would do it. Any customer that has suggestions for adding more highly skilled labor to the process should please let us know. We were also just hit by the worst storm in a decade and trouble at the port of Oakland, where containers with parts needed to complete the cars are released on an unpredictable schedule.

Thank you for your understanding and your continued support and patience. Best regards,
Jerome Guillen I VP, WW sales and service