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First P85D adopters stuck in black hole
- Thread starter gpetti
- Start date
gpetti, thanks for starting this thread. I am an unfortunate member of the "early adopter" club. I've been purposely keeping quiet on the other thread for a variety of reasons, but I'll participate here. I ordered and confirmed while AT the "D" event in LA, for which I traveled from Virginia to attend. I've been a huge Tesla supporter, and still am, despite this experience.
My situation is similar to all of yours, with the exception that my DS has been in constant communication and honestly seems like a genuinely sincere and hard working guy. The problem has been that HQ hasn't been keeping the DS's informed and/or HQ is being very specific on what they want the DS's to communicate to us. My delivery date is past (12/12), and I have not been given a new date despite pushing for one. Unfortunately I'm traveling mid-December to January, part road trip which I planned to have the model S for, and part cruise. I won't be back in the country until 1/3, and back to the DC area until 1/5. So I've now rented a mini-van for two weeks (kill me), will be paying for gas, and staying at hotels with super chargers (perhaps it's time to rebook.) I sold my P85+ back in October after I ordered the P85D. I thought maybe Tesla might offer to loan me a Model S for my trip, but that's hasn't materialized.
I am also upset about the heated steering wheel, and how it was introduced. If it had showed up in January, it would have been annoying for sure but that's life. The fact it was introduced a week or two after the first P85Ds were built is extremely poor planning on Tesla's part, especially since the first two production weeks of P85Ds had a large number of Model S owners "upgrading" specifically for the new features. Imho, they should have seen this coming a mile away and they just blew it. It's clear that people who ordered weeks after me will be receiving their cars before me, some with heated wheels and some even 2015's. If the car arrived on time and I had it for my trip, I'd be annoyed, but it would be fair. What's happening isn't right. If I'm not going to have the car until 2015, and claim the tax credit until 2016, I might as well get a 2015 with the heated steering wheel.
I too have been in discussions with Tesla about canceling my order and creating a new one. I was told today that even if I place a new order now that I'm not guaranteed to receive the new heated wheel. Why? As we learned last week, only some regions are receiving it. I knew NY was, and MD is not that far, so surely it would be in the region? Nope. Apparently the Rockville MD location is the northern most location of the south east region, which doesn't qualify. So, I said no problem, I'll take delivery in NY. Then we figured out that Devon, PA is the southern most SC in the north eastern region (which qualifies). Devon, PA is actually the alternate location that the Tesla website offers delivery based on my address; it's 150 miles away. This is when it fell apart.. my DS wasn't expecting this, didn't know what to say, and went back to speak to his management chain again. A few minutes later the DS told me "you can't do that". Do what? You can't pick up from your non-local SC. Sure I can. No you can't. Ok, why? Because Tesla would have to register the car in that state and I'm not a resident. Uh, no.. buying cars from out of state happens all the time. In fact, Tesla can't register cars in VA yet - the customer has to do it with the MCO, and Tesla provides customers with a DC temp tag. The transaction actually occurs in California. As a non-resident taking delivery out of state, Tesla does not collect CA sales tax. Many states offer drive-off permits, others don't. A drive-off permit allows a non-resident to purchase a car, not pay sales tax, and have 7-30 days (typical) to drive the vehicle to their home state. The buyer then registerers in their home state and pays tax there. Illinois offers a 7 day permit, and I have family there, and I assume that qualifies for the new heated steering wheel. The alternative to the drive away permit is that you pay the sales tax in the foreign state. In Virginia (my home state) they will deduct any taxes paid to a foreign state from the tax due at the time of VA registration. The challenge there is that VA's tax rate is 4.05% (don't get jealous; we also pay personal property tax every YEAR on the FMV residual of the car.) I'd have to find a state that has a tax rate equal to or less than 4.05% that qualifies for the steering wheel if I don't want to pay more in taxes.
So that's my story. Still a huge Tesla fan. I love what they're doing, I love the product, and generally think the people working there are great folks. The combination of poor communication, poor execution with the wheel, combined with unforeseen supply-chain issues with the seats has caused this problem. I'm still convinced that there are other things wrong with the original batch of P85Ds that were built, and that's really the cause of the delay right now, which is another reason for not wanting the car. Someone else here said frankenstein car; I had already thought of this, but dismissed it, but now that I think about it more it's a real concern. If Tesla just has them sitting there and they are prioritizing the cars coming off the line to meet their Q4 numbers, then the "customer obsessed" thing to do would be to re-build all of our cars and get them to us ASAP. Deal with the ~200-300 "needs to be fixed" cars in Q1. Remember Tesla: those ~200-300 cars are going to some of your most supportive customers. I'm happy to take delivery without the next generation seats, as long as you work diligently to get them to me in January. So far though nobody has asked me that question. Which also makes me believe there is something else going on with the car.
Thanks for listening :\
Edit: Forgot to mention my financing with EFCU with the uber low rate with 100% financing expires on 1/14. EFCU is raising their rates on 1/15, and will no longer offer 100% financing > 70k. So a delay may very well cost me $$ there as well.
A
Edit2: Since this post I've been PM'd by three people with examples of taking delivery at out of state service centers. So, not surprisingly, it can and has already been done.
My situation is similar to all of yours, with the exception that my DS has been in constant communication and honestly seems like a genuinely sincere and hard working guy. The problem has been that HQ hasn't been keeping the DS's informed and/or HQ is being very specific on what they want the DS's to communicate to us. My delivery date is past (12/12), and I have not been given a new date despite pushing for one. Unfortunately I'm traveling mid-December to January, part road trip which I planned to have the model S for, and part cruise. I won't be back in the country until 1/3, and back to the DC area until 1/5. So I've now rented a mini-van for two weeks (kill me), will be paying for gas, and staying at hotels with super chargers (perhaps it's time to rebook.) I sold my P85+ back in October after I ordered the P85D. I thought maybe Tesla might offer to loan me a Model S for my trip, but that's hasn't materialized.
I am also upset about the heated steering wheel, and how it was introduced. If it had showed up in January, it would have been annoying for sure but that's life. The fact it was introduced a week or two after the first P85Ds were built is extremely poor planning on Tesla's part, especially since the first two production weeks of P85Ds had a large number of Model S owners "upgrading" specifically for the new features. Imho, they should have seen this coming a mile away and they just blew it. It's clear that people who ordered weeks after me will be receiving their cars before me, some with heated wheels and some even 2015's. If the car arrived on time and I had it for my trip, I'd be annoyed, but it would be fair. What's happening isn't right. If I'm not going to have the car until 2015, and claim the tax credit until 2016, I might as well get a 2015 with the heated steering wheel.
I too have been in discussions with Tesla about canceling my order and creating a new one. I was told today that even if I place a new order now that I'm not guaranteed to receive the new heated wheel. Why? As we learned last week, only some regions are receiving it. I knew NY was, and MD is not that far, so surely it would be in the region? Nope. Apparently the Rockville MD location is the northern most location of the south east region, which doesn't qualify. So, I said no problem, I'll take delivery in NY. Then we figured out that Devon, PA is the southern most SC in the north eastern region (which qualifies). Devon, PA is actually the alternate location that the Tesla website offers delivery based on my address; it's 150 miles away. This is when it fell apart.. my DS wasn't expecting this, didn't know what to say, and went back to speak to his management chain again. A few minutes later the DS told me "you can't do that". Do what? You can't pick up from your non-local SC. Sure I can. No you can't. Ok, why? Because Tesla would have to register the car in that state and I'm not a resident. Uh, no.. buying cars from out of state happens all the time. In fact, Tesla can't register cars in VA yet - the customer has to do it with the MCO, and Tesla provides customers with a DC temp tag. The transaction actually occurs in California. As a non-resident taking delivery out of state, Tesla does not collect CA sales tax. Many states offer drive-off permits, others don't. A drive-off permit allows a non-resident to purchase a car, not pay sales tax, and have 7-30 days (typical) to drive the vehicle to their home state. The buyer then registerers in their home state and pays tax there. Illinois offers a 7 day permit, and I have family there, and I assume that qualifies for the new heated steering wheel. The alternative to the drive away permit is that you pay the sales tax in the foreign state. In Virginia (my home state) they will deduct any taxes paid to a foreign state from the tax due at the time of VA registration. The challenge there is that VA's tax rate is 4.05% (don't get jealous; we also pay personal property tax every YEAR on the FMV residual of the car.) I'd have to find a state that has a tax rate equal to or less than 4.05% that qualifies for the steering wheel if I don't want to pay more in taxes.
So that's my story. Still a huge Tesla fan. I love what they're doing, I love the product, and generally think the people working there are great folks. The combination of poor communication, poor execution with the wheel, combined with unforeseen supply-chain issues with the seats has caused this problem. I'm still convinced that there are other things wrong with the original batch of P85Ds that were built, and that's really the cause of the delay right now, which is another reason for not wanting the car. Someone else here said frankenstein car; I had already thought of this, but dismissed it, but now that I think about it more it's a real concern. If Tesla just has them sitting there and they are prioritizing the cars coming off the line to meet their Q4 numbers, then the "customer obsessed" thing to do would be to re-build all of our cars and get them to us ASAP. Deal with the ~200-300 "needs to be fixed" cars in Q1. Remember Tesla: those ~200-300 cars are going to some of your most supportive customers. I'm happy to take delivery without the next generation seats, as long as you work diligently to get them to me in January. So far though nobody has asked me that question. Which also makes me believe there is something else going on with the car.
Thanks for listening :\
Edit: Forgot to mention my financing with EFCU with the uber low rate with 100% financing expires on 1/14. EFCU is raising their rates on 1/15, and will no longer offer 100% financing > 70k. So a delay may very well cost me $$ there as well.
A
Edit2: Since this post I've been PM'd by three people with examples of taking delivery at out of state service centers. So, not surprisingly, it can and has already been done.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I work in the Bay Area and do handle some shipping related tasks and I can speak to the truth that there have been some recent shipping delays here (and also in the LA area). You are looking at delay that can be weeks, not just days. Plus the recent storm didn't help (I know for sure it affected air freight). Here's an article about some of it:
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-west-coast-port-backups-delay-apparel-bobbleheads-fries-2014-12
And to address those talking about "no communication" from Tesla, (again judging from experience from my own job) a lot of times sales reps don't really get specific information about delays even if they push for higher-ups to find out. Usually the most specific they can get is that it is a quality control issue at the factory (for example), but they can't tell you which part, how long it would take to fix it, or what measures are being done to address it. It's only by jumping directly to a top level executive like Jerome that it's possible to find out such details.
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John, Thank you for sharing that note from Jerome. I have taken the liberty of sharing it over on the TM forum as well. It is certainly a more detailed explanation for the delays in final preparation and delivery of many of the P85Ds.
Al
billarnett
Member
Huh? I must have missed that bit. Are you sure? Is Northern California one of the privileged regions?
All I know is there are three regions, the northeast is included. I would think the Midwest would be included, Illinois, Minn, etc. If Canada is considered a region, then that's likely the third.
How does this address the fact that people started after us who are complete? If it is just the seats why aren't they using the seats they had ear marked for cars further down the line. What am I missing here? I would think first in first out rather than first in last out...
Yeah, this is why the whole seats reasoning doesn't really seem to fit well with what is actually happening, IMO. It may very well be the reason, but just throw any old seats in it and be done with it. Hell, take the seats out of my P85 when I trade it and give it new seats later...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
From all the production history we have, Tesla's production queue was never FIFO. It was always batched. As for what pattern that batch follows, I haven't followed, but I would assume it's those with similar option groups.
If this is the ultimate real cause ... this is pretty bad news.
Combine with Jerome's "Perhaps within the last few hours of 2014", makes me think that 2014 is just not going to happen for most of us. With a 10 day ship time to the east coast, and christmas in the middle of this with an almost unavoidable slowdown there ... there is only a few days left to even get these shipped. If the parts are stuck at the port, it's just bad news.
If tesla wants to pay for it, cars can be transported in three days using two-driver trucks.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Assuming there are trucks and multiple drivers available at all. (Sorry to be a downer)
True ... And honestly, if Tesla would just come out and say that this is the issue with my car, I suppose it will be somewhat comforting -- it's not exactly what I want to hear, but it's better than a complete absence of information.
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Which also depends on how much Tesla is willing to pay. There's always a price.
I've been reading all the P85D threads like a fiend for for past few weeks/months.
As I've mentioned before my initial order goes back to July 27 of this year. With the build of my P85+ it was primarily my OA who was my main contact, I understood that my DS was super busy (with all the chaos around the factory shut down and then crazy deliveries end of last quarter). With the D order I've had a little more contact with my DS and have realized that he is a super guy and trying to always help out, but is hampered by the lack of information he himself has.
So here were are now. Mid December, like many of you my car also went into production last week of Nov (Nov.24), just as had been predicted. Then things went all sideways (traction control off
and now its been in this state of limbo for weeks. The only update has been a change of my delivery date from Dec to late Dec (on my dashboard). Once again like many of you, I don't mind the delay... these things happen BUT it is the lack of communication or explanation which is mind boggling.
I've read Jeromes's letter above and the article on the port issue... and agree that combined it makes sense, but still doesn't explain how the cars built during that last week in Nov aren't yet being shipped with the older seats unless there are a LARGE number of D orders out there which aren't on this list (but even still I do know that I was one of the first here in Toronto to order)
There was a thread on TM forums which was about ppl getting the S or P who were contacted and asked if they wanted the upgraded nappa performance seats, as there was a shortage of the 'regular' seats... so once again it seems to be a supply/seats issue.
All I ask for is a little communication.
Please pardon my rambling, I know I've added nothing of benefit or knowledge to this thread, but just wanted to say it.
Am I going to cancel and reorder? My wife says I should (but thats because she loves heated steering wheels... i could care less!). At this point I'd say that I'll stay the course and see how this month plays out.
Hope we're all happy campers soon!
As I've mentioned before my initial order goes back to July 27 of this year. With the build of my P85+ it was primarily my OA who was my main contact, I understood that my DS was super busy (with all the chaos around the factory shut down and then crazy deliveries end of last quarter). With the D order I've had a little more contact with my DS and have realized that he is a super guy and trying to always help out, but is hampered by the lack of information he himself has.
So here were are now. Mid December, like many of you my car also went into production last week of Nov (Nov.24), just as had been predicted. Then things went all sideways (traction control off
and now its been in this state of limbo for weeks. The only update has been a change of my delivery date from Dec to late Dec (on my dashboard). Once again like many of you, I don't mind the delay... these things happen BUT it is the lack of communication or explanation which is mind boggling. I've read Jeromes's letter above and the article on the port issue... and agree that combined it makes sense, but still doesn't explain how the cars built during that last week in Nov aren't yet being shipped with the older seats unless there are a LARGE number of D orders out there which aren't on this list (but even still I do know that I was one of the first here in Toronto to order)
There was a thread on TM forums which was about ppl getting the S or P who were contacted and asked if they wanted the upgraded nappa performance seats, as there was a shortage of the 'regular' seats... so once again it seems to be a supply/seats issue.
All I ask for is a little communication.
Please pardon my rambling, I know I've added nothing of benefit or knowledge to this thread, but just wanted to say it.
Am I going to cancel and reorder? My wife says I should (but thats because she loves heated steering wheels... i could care less!). At this point I'd say that I'll stay the course and see how this month plays out.
Hope we're all happy campers soon!
On the bright side... it looks like Tesla is going to miss their numbers for Q4. If you want to go long TSLA... the time to buy is coming up.
FredTMC
Model S VIN #4925
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
I have the esteemed 11/25 spot in the black hole. Don't have a clue as to why my car, with its textile seats, got caught up in these delays; have they run out of Green paint already?! That color would be particularly apt if I'm going to end up with a Frankenstein car! And, wanting to keep that color is really the only reason why my wife and I made the jump from a Feb 85D to the P85D. In hindsight, we should have settled for a vanilla S85 instead.
I haven't gotten any concrete info either and I cannot pretend that I'm not anxious. This is the second time on the merry-go-around for me; the delays and the lack of communication around the start of the initial 60 kWh pack production were just as painful. Back then, George Blankenship had our back to some extent.
My original MS60, produced in mid-Jan 2013 by a well-rested crew who got a week off after the mad scramble in late-2012, was practically perfect and I had few issues with it while I had it. I can only hope that Tesla will do right by us all and give all us black hole dwellers a "handcrafted", bespoke car.
That color would be particularly apt if I'm going to end up with a Frankenstein car! And, wanting to keep that color is really the only reason why my wife and I made the jump from a Feb 85D to the P85D. In hindsight, we should have settled for a vanilla S85 instead.I haven't gotten any concrete info either and I cannot pretend that I'm not anxious. This is the second time on the merry-go-around for me; the delays and the lack of communication around the start of the initial 60 kWh pack production were just as painful. Back then, George Blankenship had our back to some extent.
My original MS60, produced in mid-Jan 2013 by a well-rested crew who got a week off after the mad scramble in late-2012, was practically perfect and I had few issues with it while I had it. I can only hope that Tesla will do right by us all and give all us black hole dwellers a "handcrafted", bespoke car.
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