First Drive with a Steering Wheel on a Model S

[sleepydoc]

I can guarantee everyone reading this missive that the complaints about driving with a yoke are overblown; it becomes as natural as driving with a round wheel very quickly. In my opinion, the clownish attempts to portray maneuvering in tight areas on YouTube have more to do with novice driving and exaggeration than actual flaws related to driving with a yoke.

The best video I was was from Car and Driver with a professional driver that had driven the car with a yoke on a long term test for 3+ weeks. After that time he was still audibly cursing the yoke. was this an inexperienced clown?

As many have noted, one of the major downsides is visibility. No matter how I adjusted the steering wheel to fit me, it blocked the driver’s display more than the yoke.

As I have said before - you're using bad design as a justification for bad design. Every other car I have driven allows you to have complete view of the dashboard. The fact that Tesla doesn't and people feel compelled to use it as a justification for the yoke speaks more to their lack of thoughtful design than to the usefulness of a yoke.

I'm not one to worry about my car's soul - I've had cars I love and cars I've tolerated but ultimately they all need to function well and be safe. The yoke violates that criteria.

 

[MikeChicago]

Disagree. No one buys stick because it’s faster. They buy it because it’s more fun and satisfying.

And when doing performance driving even with an automatic, no one lets the “AI” do the shifting. They’re always kept in manual mode for such things.

I agree with you. I had a banged up all VW with a stick and it was more fun to drive than the automatic AMG I've owned many years later. I still fondly remember that car today. Of course, the Benz was faster, smoother, quieter and basically batter in every single way. I also wouldn't have traded it for the stick shift, but the memories of driving that car stand out for me.

I would argue that nothing makes you feel connected to the car like a stick shift. I plan on buying a classic 911 one day and that will be a stick shift.

 

[sleepydoc]

I agree with you. I had a banged up all VW with a stick and it was more fun to drive than the automatic AMG I've owned many years later. I still fondly remember that car today. Of course, the Benz was faster, smoother, quieter and basically batter in every single way. I also wouldn't have traded it for the stick shift, but the memories of driving that car stand out for me.

I would argue that nothing makes you feel connected to the car like a stick shift. I plan on buying a classic 911 one day and that will be a stick shift.

I loved driving sticks until I had to drive one in stop and go rush hour traffic every day. Suddenly the joy was gone. I will say that the instant throttle response I have in my Tesla gives me as much or more control than a stick did.

 

[dmurphy]

After over 100k miles on the yoke, my next will have the yoke. Love it and no issues at all.

I respect @dmurphy opinion. He tried and found it was not for him. It is not for everyone. But he did not come here spouting hyperbole and personal opinion/experience as universal truth. Glad there is an option for him and others that do not like the yoke.

Indeed. I'm really happy Tesla offers both now ... different strokes for different folks. Would be a REALLY boring world without choices!

Cheers!

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Thanks for the detailed comments @sleepydoc! Let me see if I can address them.

Yes, I would consider the professional driver to be inexperienced after only three weeks. This said, please remember that I am not referring to track use; only average street driving. I agree that the wheel is safer on a track.

With respect to the dash being a bad design; the word bad can be subjective. Let’s assume that you are correct, and the design of the dash is bad. My point is that there is better visibility (for me, and with a nod towards ergonomics, for most, I suspect) with the yoke.

Let’s close with your “soul” comment. You and I are simply different. I can work on any car myself, and I can fix anything myself armed with enough time and money. I intentionally drive cars that are not “safe”: a 1936 Chrysler Airstream, a brass era Jewett, a Corvair… and on and on. I don’t need safe cars, and in fact, I enjoy driving “unsafe” cars more than I do “safe” cars. The soul of a car is important to me. Anyone who restores and drives antique vehicles knows that they are not safe by today’s standards: single piston master cylinders, no airbags, roofs that can collapse in a rollover (convertibles for example), no seatbelts… and again… on and on and on. I do not care about safety, and I don’t care much about reliability except on modern vehicles.

There is no right or wrong with respect to the choice between a yoke and a wheel, except on an individual level of analysis. Whatever you want is right for you, and whatever you do not want is wrong for you. My intention with my post was simply to convey my feelings but not to impose them on others.

Again, thanks for the detailed reply.

Joe

The best video I was was from Car and Driver with a professional driver that had driven the car with a yoke on a long term test for 3+ weeks. After that time he was still audibly cursing the yoke. was this an inexperienced clown?


As I have said before - you're using bad design as a justification for bad design. Every other car I have driven allows you to have complete view of the dashboard. The fact that Tesla doesn't and people feel compelled to use it as a justification for the yoke speaks more to their lack of thoughtful design than to the usefulness of a yoke.

I'm not one to worry about my car's soul - I've had cars I love and cars I've tolerated but ultimately they all need to function well and be safe. The yoke violates that criteria.

 

[dmurphy]

a 1936 Chrysler Airstream, a brass era Jewett, a Corvair… and on and on.

Joe - we're drifting way off topic here but I'd sure love to see photos of your collection. That Airstream is a beauty, and a Jewett, really? How many of those have survived? Can't be more than a handful!

 

[Miata Head]

could one simulate how the yoke drives by just not touching the top half of the wheel?

 

[MikeChicago]

I don't understand why the Yoke vs. Steering Wheel conversation has to be so controversial and degrade to a point where people call each other names. It's an issue of preference. No one seems to have as strong of an opinion about the color of the car or what seat configuration is chosen. It's unnecessary.

My X with a steering wheel is in the shop to fix a trim that broke and the loaner they gave me is an X with a yoke. I immediately liked it. When I pick up my car today, I'll ask if they can install one for me. Hope it's an option to just pay for it and have it put in at the service center.

 

[sleepydoc]

Thanks for the detailed comments @sleepydoc! Let me see if I can address them.

Yes, I would consider the professional driver to be inexperienced after only three weeks. This said, please remember that I am not referring to track use; only average street driving. I agree that the wheel is safer on a track.

With respect to the dash being a bad design; the word bad can be subjective. Let’s assume that you are correct, and the design of the dash is bad. My point is that there is better visibility (for me, and with a nod towards ergonomics, for most, I suspect) with the yoke.

Let’s close with your “soul” comment. You and I are simply different. I can work on any car myself, and I can fix anything myself armed with enough time and money. I intentionally drive cars that are not “safe”: a 1936 Chrysler Airstream, a brass era Jewett, a Corvair… and on and on. I don’t need safe cars, and in fact, I enjoy driving “unsafe” cars more than I do “safe” cars. The soul of a car is important to me. Anyone who restores and drives antique vehicles knows that they are not safe by today’s standards: single piston master cylinders, no airbags, roofs that can collapse in a rollover (convertibles for example), no seatbelts… and again… on and on and on. I do not care about safety, and I don’t care much about reliability except on modern vehicles.

There is no right or wrong with respect to the choice between a yoke and a wheel, except on an individual level of analysis. Whatever you want is right for you, and whatever you do not want is wrong for you. My intention with my post was simply to convey my feelings but not to impose them on others.

Again, thanks for the detailed reply.

Joe

The car and driver article was on-street usage, not track usage. (Ironically, F1 cars have a yoke. The difference is they rarely need to turn much past 90º). Either way, if a professional driver can't get used to a control in 3 weeks then I think that speaks for itself.

I can see your point with getting a better view of the dashboard with the yoke - my point was that it's Tesla's poor initial design that gives you that advantage. Had they designed the dash properly there shouldn't be a difference.

I'm glad Tesla at least gives people a choice now. Honestly, what disturbs me more than the yoke is them removing the stalks. If I had to choose, I'd chose a yoke over no stalks, but to be honest if either one is a requirement then I wouldn't purchase another Tesla.

You are right, we are quite different when it comes to cars - I'd still like to see your collection, though!

 

[dn325ci]

I like the visibility with the yoke, but if you're going to do any driving other than mostly straight ahead, it just frustrates the experience. First time I drove a Palladium with wheel, it finally all came together and felt sublime. With the wheel I could put my hands where I wanted and I could feel more of what the car was doing.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Agreed on the stalk. I do not think I will ever become accustomed to the idiotic turn signal or horn buttons. I have zero muscle memory when it comes to turn signals or horn. Adding to the dilemma is the changes in rotational positioning should one ever, god forbid, need to press the turn signal or horn while in a turn.

With respect to these two items, Tesla "fixed" (AKA destroyed) something that was not broken.

Joe

 

[terranx]

I loved driving sticks until I had to drive one in stop and go rush hour traffic every day. Suddenly the joy was gone. I will say that the instant throttle response I have in my Tesla gives me as much or more control than a stick did.

Well this is a big part of why I ended up buying a Tesla for my daily driver. But I still have my (BMW) M3 for when I want to have fun. While I do enjoy driving the Plaid (and the M3P before it), there’s still nothing quite is satisfying as nailing 8k rpm shifts while whipping through corners.

 

[sleepydoc]

Something else with the yoke - Tesla implemented drive by wire with the cyber truck and with it variable ratio steering. From the reviews I’ve read it means you never really need to turn the wheel past 100-110°. In my mind this would make the yoke an entirely different proposition and potentially eliminate some of the pitfalls.

 

[dn325ci]

Something else with the yoke - Tesla implemented drive by wire with the cyber truck and with it variable ratio steering. From the reviews I’ve read it means you never really need to turn the wheel past 100-110°. In my mind this would make the yoke an entirely different proposition and potentially eliminate some of the pitfalls.

Right - steer-by-wire allows the variable ratio steering that makes a yoke more effective. At the same time, I'm wondering what effect steer-by-wire has on steering feel, which is more relevant in a car with sporting intentions than in a pickup. Personally, I don't think steer-by-wire is coming anytime soon to Model S, and would not occur as an update to Palladium but would require the next major chassis change or replacement.

 

[sleepydoc]

Right - steer-by-wire allows the variable ratio steering that makes a yoke more effective. At the same time, I'm wondering what effect steer-by-wire has on steering feel, which is more relevant in a car with sporting intentions than in a pickup. Personally, I don't think steer-by-wire is coming anytime soon to Model S, and would not occur as an update to Palladium but would require the next major chassis change or replacement.

From the reviews I saw on the CT the steer by wire was a bit odd but not too difficult to get used to.

Agreed - Steer by wire requires some major chassis changes so I wouldn't expect it to come to the other Tesla models any time soon, but who knows?

 

[terranx]

From the reviews I saw on the CT the steer by wire was a bit odd but not too difficult to get used to.

Agreed - Steer by wire requires some major chassis changes so I wouldn't expect it to come to the other Tesla models any time soon, but who knows?

Well it'd probably require 48v, but I don't see why a major chassis change would be required? All they'd have to do is swap out the existing steering rack with a steer by wire one while leaving the geometry otherwise the same.

 

[dn325ci]

From the reviews I saw on the CT the steer by wire was a bit odd but not too difficult to get used to.

CT reviewers said they got used to it, yes, but that doesn't mean it has the road feel you want in a more sporting car. Camissa said as much in his CT review.

 

[terranx]

From the reviews I saw on the CT the steer by wire was a bit odd but not too difficult to get used to.

Keep in mind that's just about what most reviewers said about the yoke lol

 

[popgodazipa]

could one simulate how the yoke drives by just not touching the top half of the wheel?

I tried that leading up to my decision to go with the yoke but it's not the same. Unconsciously I would reach for the top portion of my steering wheel, say 12 o'clock, on some of my turns when I ran my sim. I got a MS yoke for an overnight demo and there I was reaching for 12 again. Really took the car through its paces in the morning before returning ... I was sold after that. The MS 20 I'm coming from has an abnormally large steering wheel in my opinion so I'm happy to have less.

 

[dsm363]

The best video I was was from Car and Driver with a professional driver that had driven the car with a yoke on a long term test for 3+ weeks. After that time he was still audibly cursing the yoke. was this an inexperienced clown?


As I have said before - you're using bad design as a justification for bad design. Every other car I have driven allows you to have complete view of the dashboard. The fact that Tesla doesn't and people feel compelled to use it as a justification for the yoke speaks more to their lack of thoughtful design than to the usefulness of a yoke.

I'm not one to worry about my car's soul - I've had cars I love and cars I've tolerated but ultimately they all need to function well and be safe. The yoke violates that criteria.

Agree. The only reason it blocks more of the design was because they put zero thought into the UI for round steering wheel. The small screen was completely visible on the 2020 and prior Model S. Only when so many people hated the yoke did they cave and come back with a (smaller) round steering wheel. And now a center horn. And maybe back to a turn signal stalk but will see.