fire safety dilemma

[dbw77]

I purchased 4 Nest's for the house, and one of them went off as soon as I opened it and would not allow me to even set it up, it was a non cancelable fire warning.

I found out there is a "recalibrate to room" function and once I did that, it worked fine. For some reason the other ones didn't need that.
Maybe the one you had just needed to be calibrated to the room it was in (garage). In any event, if they are now saying not to put it in the garage, they will probably stick to that no matter what you ask them.

 

[bonnie]

Why is there a higher concern over improper wiring in your garage for an EV vs. improper wiring in your garage for some other system? Instead of focusing on a smoke/heat alarm, maybe the first step should be focusing on how to ensure the wiring is adequate for whatever usage model you have ...

Just seems like maybe we're falling victim to the whole media overreaction here.

My two cents.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I think it's a valid concern as no other load in your house draws 40A, 10000W, continuous for hours on end. Not your dryer, not your oven, not your hot tub.

That said, if you've got an ICE in your garage, too, it's far more likely to be a source of spontaneous combustion with all of its hot exhaust components, flammable liquids, and 12V system to spark a fire, plus gas to fuel that fire.

I think it's a crying shame we don't put smoke detectors in garages as a matter of course because ICE cars are so dirty they set them off too often. Would save some lives.

 

[bonnie]

I think it's a valid concern as no other load in your house draws 40A, 10000W, continuous for hours on end. Not your dryer, not your oven, not your hot tub.

That said, if you've got an ICE in your garage, too, it's far more likely to be a source of spontaneous combustion with all of its hot exhaust components, flammable liquids, and 12V system to spark a fire, plus gas to fuel a fire.

Exactly. And up until now, people haven't been overly worried.

 

[ecarfan]

I have installed four Nest Protects in my house and one in my one-car garage near my radiant heat boiler and tankless water heater, both of which run on natural gas. The garage contains an ICE and my HPWC, the Tesla is on the other side of the wall in a carport (small garage, the Model S doesn't fit). I will post if my fare Nest gives false alarms.

 

[ribsandbbqbeef]

Why is there a higher concern over improper wiring in your garage for an EV vs. improper wiring in your garage for some other system? Instead of focusing on a smoke/heat alarm, maybe the first step should be focusing on how to ensure the wiring is adequate for whatever usage model you have ...

I think it's a valid concern as no other load in your house draws 40A, 10000W, continuous for hours on end. Not your dryer, not your oven, not your hot tub.

bonnie, what Early Adopter said is the reason I'm concerned about a garage fire. Even if there was not a recent garage fire in Irvine, I would have put in a detector of some sort as an extra added layer of protection. Until the Tesla, I don't use anything in the Garage that draws a continuous high current for hours unattended, likely in the middle of the night when my family & I are sleeping.

 

[bonnie]

bonnie, what Early Adopter said is the reason I'm concerned about a garage fire. Even if there was not a recent garage fire in Irvine, I would have put in a detector of some sort as an extra added layer of protection. Until the Tesla, I don't use anything in the Garage that draws a continuous high current for hours unattended, likely in the middle of the night when my family & I are sleeping.

But he also went on to say (emphasis mine):

That said, if you've got an ICE in your garage, too, it's far more likely to be a source of spontaneous combustion with all of its hot exhaust components, flammable liquids, and 12V system to spark a fire, plus gas to fuel a fire.

And my point is that while there has been higher probability all along with current garage setups, people have bought into the media hype and are overly worried about EVs ... NOT because of higher danger, but because of a few media reports.

Instead of installing warning devices, if I were truly worried, I'd hire an electrical inspector to make sure my system was over-specified. I'd rather prevent a potential fire than be warned about a fire.

But I'm not worried. I've hired competent licensed people to do the work that's been done. I've been charging an EV in my garage for three years now. I also have an ICE in the garage that holds approx 16 gallons of highly flammable liquid. And I sleep well at night.

------ update

Let me be really clear ... of course people should install all the warning systems they want to feel safe in their homes. I am just dismayed that as a community, we are discussing installing warning systems for something that is less dangerous than the ICE vehicles we have had parked in our attached garages for years. I blame the media. It's hard not to feel this way when we read the articles and see fires burning and think about 'what if that happened here?' and know how simple it is to install a warning system.

But IF the media had done the same thing with every ICE fire, we'd be parking those vehicles down the block from our house, instead of in the garage. Just sayin'.

 

[ribsandbbqbeef]

But he also went on to say (emphasis mine):


And my point is that while there has been higher probability all along with current garage setups, people have bought into the media hype and are overly worried about EVs ... NOT because of higher danger, but because of a few media reports.

Instead of installing warning devices, if I were truly worried, I'd hire an electrical inspector to make sure my system was over-specified. I'd rather prevent a potential fire than be warned about a fire.

But I'm not worried. I've hired competent licensed people to do the work that's been done. I've been charging an EV in my garage for three years now. I also have an ICE in the garage that holds approx 16 gallons of highly flammable liquid. And I sleep well at night.

------ update

Let me be really clear ... of course people should install all the warning systems they want to feel safe in their homes. I am just dismayed that as a community, we are discussing installing warning systems for something that is less dangerous than the ICE vehicles we have had parked in our attached garages for years. I blame the media. It's hard not to feel this way when we read the articles and see fires burning and think about 'what if that happened here?' and know how simple it is to install a warning system.

But IF the media had done the same thing with every ICE fire, we'd be parking those vehicles down the block from our house, instead of in the garage. Just sayin'.

To each their own then. Like I said, I would've installed a smoke detector with the installation of the NEMA & purchase of my S regardless of the media noise. And regardless of whether an electrician is licensed or whether one "over specs" a NEMA installation (my NEMA is hooked up via 6 AWG Romex, when "technically" 8 AWG would have sufficed), accidents do happen (ie not plugging in the UMC all the way, arc'ing, connection coming loose after being plugged in, short, breaker failure & not popping).

A major difference between an ICE & our S, is that the charging process is an "active" process where high current is running through multiple connections to our batteries, thus higher energy state & potential for accidents. The gas in an ICE is in a passive states until it is ignited by the spark plugs. Thus while an ICE's "potential energy" may be higher, it is inactive & passive while parked in the garage versus an actively charging EV.

 

[markb1]

I am just dismayed that as a community, we are discussing installing warning systems for something that is less dangerous than the ICE vehicles we have had parked in our attached garages for years.

I've seen a number of melted adapters on this forum, and this concerns me a great deal. It seems at least some UMCs are defective. It may be true that an ICE is more dangerous parked in a garage, but I don't think the data is in, yet.

 

[Incredulocious]

I've seen a number of melted adapters on this forum, and this concerns me a great deal. It seems at least some UMCs are defective. It may be true that an ICE is more dangerous parked in a garage, but I don't think the data is in, yet.

Yep, me too. I'm less concerned about that reported fire in the parking garage (presumably due to poor wiring). I'm more concerned about these multiple and on-going reports of failures and or damaged connectors with the UMCs as I am using a modified Tesla UMC to charge my RAV4 EV at 40 amps. And I was never concerned charging my 2011 LEAF at a measly 16 amps with its modified EVSE.

So I've been checking on it occasionally, watching for signs of overheating... and I ordered a pair of NEST detectors but haven't installed them yet – dismayed to hear about someone already having trouble with them in the garage.

Heh... and can't say I'm too worried about the ICE RAV4 sitting unused next to the EV one, despite the gallons of flammable liquid in it. All I'm asking it to do is sit there quietly... and not pout too loudly from neglect. If anything, I'm more worried about the actively used propane water heater than the ICE. :tongue:

 

[100thMonkey]

does anyone know of a simple heat detector I can wrap around the UMH plug? I'm thinking some kind of band that ideally I could adjust the sensitivity to. I'm not one to get caught up in hype, but I am generally proactive when it comes to common sense solution oriented risk management. you don't need to be a worry wort to find it worthwhile to take some simple preventative steps. a heat detector right on the UMC seems like a worthwhile thing for piece of mind considering how many have melted... considering we have kids in the house and our S is parked directly under our bed in the garage.

 

[jerry33]

does anyone know of a simple heat detector I can wrap around the UMH plug?

You want a heat sensing label.