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NikeWings
Active Member
A reminder about the visibility of our comments.......a personal email quoted in the linked article, was posted in this thread a couple of days ago. Hopefully @nikielizabeth gave permission for its further distribution. Regardless, this is a public forum and it's easy to forget the many eyes watching. Tesla Model S Autopilot Crash Gets A Bit Scary … + Strong Signs Of Negligence
Tam
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that Autopilot is not Autonomous Driving.
It is best to consider it as a conventional cruise control that you should brake as you should normally would and not waiting for it to brake for you.
That has always been my position.
Sorry that you think that I have switched my position.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
That makes sense - just that this is too large a thread for all to read every post to have full context.
I have not read the thread, so this post may be redundant.
Is "Autopilot" supposed to have changed direction to avoid the truck, or to have decelerated/braked?
I am unaware of any specific feature or capability of "Autopilot," other than Summon, that causes the car to change direction in order to avoid obstacles, AFAIK, TACC does not; Autosteer does not (except w/r positioning within a lane, relative to center). Am I missing something? Are not TACC and Autosteer the only features of the Autopilot Convenience Features option relevant to this accident?
As to automatic deceleration, TACC is specified to not necessarily detect stationary objects in the car's path (Owner's Manual, p. 69). A truck moving perpendicular to the car's path is stationary relative to the car, is it not?
More generally: this accident is thought by many to be a failure of Autopilot. But I don't see exactly what feature or aspect of Autopilot is supposed to have failed.
Is "Autopilot" supposed to have changed direction to avoid the truck, or to have decelerated/braked?
I am unaware of any specific feature or capability of "Autopilot," other than Summon, that causes the car to change direction in order to avoid obstacles, AFAIK, TACC does not; Autosteer does not (except w/r positioning within a lane, relative to center). Am I missing something? Are not TACC and Autosteer the only features of the Autopilot Convenience Features option relevant to this accident?
As to automatic deceleration, TACC is specified to not necessarily detect stationary objects in the car's path (Owner's Manual, p. 69). A truck moving perpendicular to the car's path is stationary relative to the car, is it not?
More generally: this accident is thought by many to be a failure of Autopilot. But I don't see exactly what feature or aspect of Autopilot is supposed to have failed.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Neither, it's not designed to handle cross traffic. Therefore I'd say it's behavior is "undefined".
The primary cause of the crash is a failure to yield on part of the truck driver. A secondary cause might be possible inattentiveness of the Tesla driver.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It's still speculation that the Tesla driver was distracted. Everything else is from the FHP report.
It's actually the law that you have to yield to oncoming traffic and the truck driver saw the Tesla by his own admission.
The initial Florida Highway Patrol report says that the truck driver "failed to yield right-of-way"
The FHP diagram lists the truck as "V1" Vehicle 1 is customarily the label for the vehicle at fault. Therefore saying the truck driver was the primary cause is not really speculative because that's how it was documented by law enforcement...
DrManhattan
Member
Most of the facts will forever remain unknown, but I would say it's is HIGHLY probable the driver was very distracted, or there was some kind of medical issue. If you see where he went under the truck, there was certainly ample time to maneuver or hit the brakes.
Do you have a link source for that? If true, I didn't realize that was their findings.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Sure DVD Player In Tesla Raises Questions In Autopilot Death
The FHP report is here:
http://documents.latimes.com/tesla-accident-report/
Those source links do not conclude that the truck driver was at fault in any way. The final determination of the cause of the crash has not yet be determined and may take serveral weeks before its released. Initial crash reports do not determine who is at fault. We'll just have to wait and see what their investigation comes up with.
Who's at fault is all speculative at this point. Anything other than that is simply not true. It may be determined it's the truckers fault...it may be determined it's not. Time will tell.
Look at the box for each driver titled "Drivers Actions at Time of Crash (first)".
For trucker it is filled in "3 Failed to Yield Right of Way"
For J.Brown it is filled in "1 No Contributing Action"
That does not determine who caused the crash or who's primarily at fault.
The final report isn't out so how are you able to conclusively say who caused what?
deonb
Active Member
You asked for the findings of the Florida Highway Patrol. This is the findings of the Florida Highway Patrol.
The report that's not out yet is the NHTSA investigation.
I'm trying to determine what's the facts.
Is it a fact or not that the truck driver has been found to be the primary cause of the crash? Fact or not?
That's all I'm trying to find out. If it was definitively proven that he was at fault, I assume he was issued a citation or arrested or something? Yes? No?
There's lots of misinformation out there...I haven't found any credible evidence that the truck driver has been found guilty of being the primary cause of this accident. If so, great, please provide the source and I'll be up to date on that.
Sounds like you've never been in an accident. If so, kudos to you!
When you have an accident report like that, where one party has a clear legal violation while the other does not, it is a clear indication by the investigating officer of who is guilty and liable.
Typically if no one dies, this just goes to insurance and personal injury lawyers if there is an alleged injury. Since there is new technology involved here (with the potential to deflect blame and provide deep pockets), we see the NHTSA get involved and everyone starts speculating. So we shall see.
Ok
So the investigating officer that filled out this initial report marked "failure to yield" to the truck driver. But this does not prove it's true unless determined by the courts or insurance companies...correct?
In other words, the trucker hasn't been found legally liable yet unless it's proven by a legal body?
Everything I've read (outside of tmc) says the trucker hasn't been issued a citation or arrested. Nothing. Its been almost 2 months. That leads me to believe no fault has been given to him yet. If that's true, he hasn't been found guilty of doing anything wrong yet. Which, in my mind, means he's not the primary cause of this accident..yet.
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