EV car fire video

[NV Ray]

Exceptional recent 8 min video by Colorado Fire Dept of response to home EV car fire.

Three recommendations towards end of video - (1) stay home while charging, (2) use manufacturer approved charging cables, and (3) do not block exit paths while charging i.e. charging mobility device in a hallway.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

Good thing it was a Jaguar because if it had been a Tesla it would have made national news (since everyone loves hating on Tesla right now)

 

[jjrandorin]

Good thing it was a Jaguar because if it had been a Tesla it would have made national news (since everyone loves hating on Tesla right now)

I havent watched the video but as you say, if it was a Tesla not only would it be on multiple news stations, at least 4-5 other people would have also started threads on it here, as well.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

I havent watched the video but as you say, if it was a Tesla not only would it be on multiple news stations, at least 4-5 other people would have also started threads on it here, as well.

I would HIGHLY suggest you watch it. It was a fascinating look at how fire departments deal with modern EV fires. I was amazed at the massive blanket that they used to cover the entire vehicle to starve the fire of oxygen.

 

[Yelobird]

I havent watched the video but as you say, if it was a Tesla not only would it be on multiple news stations, at least 4-5 other people would have also started threads on it here, as well.

Fully agree. Add to that I found it interesting at no point in the video did the mention the brand or OEM nor the hybrid brand in the garage. IF this was a Tesla that Would have been the first word in the title of this promo.

 

[NV Ray]

Fully agree. Add to that I found it interesting at no point in the video did the mention the brand or OEM nor the hybrid brand in the garage. IF this was a Tesla that Would have been the first word in the title of this promo.

As @Macb00kemdanno mentioned upthread, the car in the video seems to be a Jaguar I-Pace. I also think the same based on video and "Jaguar" comment made by someone in the video around the 1:56 mark. To me, the video was very informative and well produced. Providing information from a fire fighting point of view.

 

[Yelobird]

As @Macb00kemdanno mentioned upthread, the car in the video seems to be a Jaguar I-Pace. I also think the same based on video and "Jaguar" comment made by someone in the video around the 1:56 mark. To me, the video was very informative and well produced. Providing information from a fire fighting point of view.

Agreed a very informative video no disagreement. While we figured out the car model it’s still funny they avoided it in the publication. That was my point.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

As @Macb00kemdanno mentioned upthread, the car in the video seems to be a Jaguar I-Pace. I also think the same based on video and "Jaguar" comment made by someone in the video around the 1:56 mark. To me, the video was very informative and well produced. Providing information from a fire fighting point of view.

I think the Jaguar i-Pace might be the last of the models impacted by the bad LG cell manufacturing.

 

[zoomer0056]

Good, informative video.

If it was a Tesla, it would be on every major news channel. Since not a Tesla, the info is not important to the news media.

They're just not imaginative ... they could still mention Tesla and get enough viewers to sell pharmaceutical commercials. But I'm not cynical.

 

[NV Ray]

Good, informative video. If it was a Tesla, it would be on every major news channel. Since not a Tesla, the info is not important to the news media.

Tend to agree. Yet, the informational content should be covered by news and social media. The latter looks promising - almost half a million views in 2 days. I'm doing my part

 

[NV Ray]

Good, informative video.

If it was a Tesla, it would be on every major news channel. Since not a Tesla, the info is not important to the news media.

They're just not imaginative ... they could still mention Tesla and get enough viewers to sell pharmaceutical commercials. But I'm not cynical.

Now that I think of it, based on your comment, this video would be a feather in Tesla's cap by title saying "Electric Vehicle Fire (not a Tesla)"

That said, I'd bet majority of folks, including me, thought it was a Tesla before seeing the video.

 

[dakhlkt22]

Anyone know the battery chemistry of the Jaguar I-Pace?

There's an argument to be made that giving up a bit of range in order to avoid the statistical game of battery cell manufacturing defects might be better off for the reputation of EVs overall. Had a convo with my plumber about EVs and among his excuses was "I've seen videos of EVs on fire." Kind of a branding nightmare.

Unfortunately, it does seem like almost all EV manufacturers are only using LFP, with its safer battery chemistry, for less expensive models with lower range. So these videos will only become more common over time as EV adoption increases.

 

[dakhlkt22]

Jaguar I-Pace Battery Class Action Lawsuit: LG Chem Batteries Again?

The Jaguar I-Pace, which uses LG battery cells, was recently recalled due possible battery fires. The lawsuit says Jaguar sold vehicles knowing of the defect.

insideevs.com

 

[NV Ray]

Looks like some local news media has covered the incident.

Electric vehicle ‘spontaneously’ catches fire in Centennial garage

South Metro Fire Rescue and the Arapahoe County Sheriff’s Office responded to a garage fire on Wednesday morning and ended up transporting a still-smoldering electric vehicle from the scene.

kdvr.com

Electric vehicle that sparked Centennial garage fire had recall related to battery overheating issue

Two electric vehicles were in the garage when the fire started, according to South Metro Fire Rescue.

www.9news.com

EV Jaguar charging in garage when fire started in Centennial, Colorado

When crews arrived at the home located in the 5500 block of S. Mobile Street they found smoke coming from the garage and flames inside.

www.cbsnews.com

Electric vehicle starts garage fire in Centennial on Wednesday morning, South Metro Fire Rescue says

An electric vehicle inside a Centennial garage started a fire on Wednesday morning, South Metro Fire Rescue said on the social media site X.

www.denver7.com

 

[drb3333]

Exceptional recent 8 min video by Colorado Fire Dept of response to home EV car fire.

Three recommendations towards end of video - (1) stay home while charging, (2) use manufacturer approved charging cables, and (3) do not block exit paths while charging i.e. charging mobility device in a hallway.

Lithium chemistry batteries do not need oxygen to burn.

Why do lithium-ion batteries catch fire? | Fire Protection Association

Click to view this page on www.thefpa.co.uk

www.thefpa.co.uk

This so-called burn is not chemical oxidization but rather thermal runaway and the blanket is there only to isolate the fire to keep it from combusting nearby materials. This fireman repeatedly says the wrong thing according to the fire blanket manufacturer. It certainly does not work by depriving the battery of oxygen.

Another point to remember is a an EV battery of this size (90KW/h LG Chem NMC (LiNiMnCoO2)) stores less energy than even 3 gallons of gasoline, so 99% of the garages have far more material prone to combustion. So don't block exit paths is good advice for those conditions also. And thanks for posting!

 

[The Lorax]

"This just in....there was an EV Car fire today in Colorado. While the Fire Dept. confirmed that it wasn't a TESLA, witnesses say that it could have been...and you should be very concerned..."

 

[cwerdna]

Another point to remember is a an EV battery of this size (90KW/h LG Chem NMC (LiNiMnCoO2)) stores less energy than even 3 gallons of gasoline, so 99% of the garages have far more material prone to combustion. So don't block exit paths is good advice for those conditions also. And thanks for posting!

You mean 90 kWh? Yes, I know that a gallon of gasoline contains ~33.7 kWh of energy content but I'm not convinced a completely dead or pretty discharged li-ion battery is much less of a burn/fire hazard if it were to burn, reach thermal runaway or whatever.

The article you point to mentions "Lithium-ion battery cells combine a flammable electrolyte with significant stored energy,"

 

[dakhlkt22]

There are three main conclusions, as shown below:
1: The TR trigger temperature of LFP battery is about 180 °C, which is higher than that of the NCM ternary battery, which is around 130–140 °C. If the severity of the battery’s TR is divided by temperature, NCM9 0.5 0.5 battery has the most intense TR in the early stage, while NCM523, NCM622, and NCM811 have multiple injection phenomena in the middle. The TR of the LFP battery is more intense at the end. From the perspective of thermal stability, the LFP battery is safer than the NCM battery.
2: Under standard conditions, the normalized gas production of NCM ternary battery is (1.8–2.8) L/Ah, while that of LFP battery is only 0.569 L/Ah. Based on battery gas production, the degree of harm caused by thermal runaway can be ranked as follows: NCM9 0.5 0.5 > NCM811 > NCM622 > NCM523 > LFP.
3: The gas generated during TR of LFP batteries contains a higher proportion of H2
, which results in a LFL for the gas produced by the LFP battery thermal runaway compared to the mixed gas produced during the NCM battery thermal runaway. Therefore, from the perspective of thermal runaway gas composition, the hazard ranking is LFP > NCM811 > NCM622 > NCM523 > NCM9 0.5 0.5.
In people’s impression, LFP batteries have better thermal stability compared to NCM batteries during normal use and thermal stability tests. However, in the case of a large-scale battery thermal runaway incident, such as in an energy storage power station, considering the gas production components, LFP batteries may be more dangerous. This paper points out the gas products generated after battery thermal runaway. In the future, by designing experiments, gas detection can be used as a signal factor for detecting thermal runaway accidents, providing new ideas and assistance for the safety design of large-scale energy storage systems.

Source: Thermal Runaway Characteristics and Gas Composition Analysis of Lithium-Ion Batteries with Different LFP and NCM Cathode Materials under Inert Atmosphere

This says Jaguar I Pace uses NCM 622

So it looks like LFP has a better safety profile than all NCM battery types overall, but LFP isn't risk free. It too can experience thermal runaway.

NCM thermal runaway trigger: 130 deg C = 262 deg F.
LFP thermal runaway trigger: 180 deg C = 356 deg F

 

[NV Ray]

Lithium chemistry batteries do not need oxygen to burn.

Why do lithium-ion batteries catch fire? | Fire Protection Association

Click to view this page on www.thefpa.co.uk

www.thefpa.co.uk

This so-called burn is not chemical oxidization but rather thermal runaway and the blanket is there only to isolate the fire to keep it from combusting nearby materials. This fireman repeatedly says the wrong thing according to the fire blanket manufacturer. It certainly does not work by depriving the battery of oxygen.

Another point to remember is a an EV battery of this size (90KW/h LG Chem NMC (LiNiMnCoO2)) stores less energy than even 3 gallons of gasoline, so 99% of the garages have far more material prone to combustion. So don't block exit paths is good advice for those conditions also

"This just in....there was an EV Car fire today in Colorado. While the Fire Dept. confirmed that it wasn't a TESLA, witnesses say that it could have been...and you should be very concerned..."

 

[drb3333]

You mean 90 kWh? Yes, I know that a gallon of gasoline contains ~33.7 kWh of energy content but I'm not convinced a completely dead or pretty discharged li-ion battery is much less of a burn/fire hazard if it were to burn, reach thermal runaway or whatever.

The article you point to mentions "Lithium-ion battery cells combine a flammable electrolyte with significant stored energy,"

(Yes, I did mean kWh; thanks.)

What I said earlier was definitely wrong, but I cannot go back and correct myself since time has elapsed since the post. And I kick myself a little because I am familiar with steam explosions wherein with enough energy, water can separate into H and O and violently combust to recombine. Just didn't think runaway thermal was in that regime. Mea culpa.

I do stand corrected now that I have looked deeper into the chemistry. It does seem the electrolyte can decompose into combustable components under extreme heat according to this excellent publication from the Electrochemical Society:

https://www.electrochem.org/dl/interface/sum/sum12/sum12_p045_049.pdf

The bottom line is with runaway heat, the electrolyte can separate and release more energy than was stored by the electrochemical process, and requires additional oxygen to do so; I was wrong in my assumption but this article quantifies the release.

This is somewhat new technology to most of us, so it is always good to learn more if you don't mind digging through the chemistry.