Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean... sure?
But also they're making 10x more of them, and the cost to make and deliver them is much lower too.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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I mean... sure?
But also they're making 10x more of them, and the cost to make and deliver them is much lower too.
This man is, allegedly, 51 years old.
What is this inflation you are talking about?
I don't understand what the issue is. By their own admission they are less than 70% Govt funded. To be accurate they are 66% Govt funded.
If your heart burn is due to the 3% difference between 69 and 66%, I agree you have a point.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Seems to act like a 13 year old boy in social situations.
But, was it really inflation or was it simply supply and demand?
There has been a correction for a LOT of vehicles, and the ones that haven't corrected are supply limited.
When it comes to Tesla specifically I think they're suffering from dated designs and the lack of innovation. I'm not even aware of anything new in the pipeline that is attractive to the mainstream car buyer.
There also suffering from the fact that their best sales person not only isn't showing up for work, but he turns off so many customers.
We keep asking the question whether Elon is turning off people from a Tesla, but maybe we should be asking if there is any reason to keep him?
All very true, but before a period of inflation. So 49K is not what it was 3 years ago, and materials costs are likely up. It remains to be seen if volume growth has offset costs and price cuts to where profits aren't taking a hit.
It will ultimately remain a question, because we can't know exactly what Elon has done to potential volume with his antics.
Also turning off existing base of customers that many were active sales people for Tesla. Honestly I dont want to be in a conversation pushing Tesla and people get angry because of Elon.
Precisely…maybe read the whole article not just the headline.
Not just cost of materials, but costs of employees as well. Unless Tesla and suppliers didnt give out pay increases then the human capital costs have increased. Of course that gets offset by productivity gains, but those gains have been happening overtime any ways.
Yup. I’ve shut up telling anyone about our cars. Answer now “they are just cars”.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
3 Years ago the Y was:
1) at the beginning of it's ramp. COGS were much much higher than now.
2) multiple cost-saving items had not been put into place - Front and Rear single castings (2020 MY was a two-piece rear casting only) - USS sensor removal and associated wiring harness decrease - no IRA manuf tax credits for in-USA battery production (these are ~$3000- 3500 per Model Y - 4680 or 2170 based).
Aluminum, nickel, copper, lithium, and steel prices, are all on steep declines now from their pandemic peaks.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Actually, human capital costs have stayed flat or dropped for Tesla, on a per-car basis. This is information that is in their 10-Q.
While they have more humans than ever employed, they need many MANY fewer man hours per car than they did in 2020. Remember, the introduction of dual castings reduces the size of the assembly lines (a Model Y assembly line is ~40% shorter than a Model 3 assembly line).
I don't think anyone can draw conclusions one way or another from sales numbers. There are too many confounds and trying to draw a conclusion or calculate effect size of the Twitter purchase on Tesla sales is a fool's errand.
4 days ago, Twitter should have removed all non check marked accounts from your "For You" stream. That seems to have been done but can anyone confirm. Didn't see any complaints in the news on this. Perhaps they did but I didn't see it in my "For You" stream...
Tomorrow, Twitter should be removing legacy blue checkmarks. Is this still expected? Should be a fun day if so. Do I need to setup a Mastodon account to see the fallout?
Should have done these things the other way around so that we could have watched more easily.
Tomorrow, Twitter should be removing legacy blue checkmarks. Is this still expected? Should be a fun day if so. Do I need to setup a Mastodon account to see the fallout?
Should have done these things the other way around so that we could have watched more easily.
Why I think we need to wait and just look for less small noise items and look at common sense topics (less debatable to me at least). High price, low supply and people still buying (like Sep 2022) means there is no demand issue at all and supply limited when people are happy to pay $68k for a MY. That changed near end of 2022.
Supply in Europe seems higher from links I've seen and we know the price war in China right now. They cut Model 3 prices again which I thought would happen simply due to the earlier price cuts not being as deep and sedan/lower demand generally in the US. Prices will keep going down till the point they start losing $$ as Musk himself said he has no concerns with margins and will sell as many as possible. Some of the price cuts were to also kill off/deflect competition (which a lot of folks here think is 0), but some of the other car makers make decent enough EVs.
If demand was still as high and low supply was there, there is no need at all to cut prices no matter what happens with the tax credit, etc.
I'm waiting for any actual major details like moving to TX. Only legit thing I've seen so far has been stock options value the company at $20 billion.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Given that humans wildly disagree on many aspects of "morality" (including Elon careening back and forth between various absolutist stances he doesn't appear to actually believe in), I don't think there is any DNA to it.
At best, we might find a societal-level consensus.... which is kinda what our various legal systems do.
I regret that one of the things Elon proclaimed but later abandoned was the blue-ribbon panel to lead Twitters moderation policy decisions. An open, transparent version of that is what's needed, not a mindless AI bot channeling the "wisdom" of stuff it heard on wikipedia and reddit
Tiger
Active Member
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
I'll politely disagree.
DNA is a set of blueprints for making protein sequences for cells. DNA doesn't think. It isn't an algorithm.
Brain cell network connection and strengths trained on a lifetime of input data is what our minds are. Saying DNA is an algorithm is like saying silicon gate blueprints are AI. You can build a neural net with the gates, but it's the billions-of-training-sets that make the "algorithm".
Meanwhile, relentlessly back to Elon and Twitter. Humans are absolutely essential to setting moderation policy. AI could be a useful tool to make it more efficient to enforce that policy once the humans decide on it. Elon is not on that path in any way - Twitter policy is done directly at his personal political whim, and often later reversed without explanation or grounding in any moral framework.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The Model Y is likely to end the year (and currently appears to already be) the best selling car in the world.
Seems attractive enough to mainstream buyers to me.
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