Bet TSLA
Active Member
If he doesn't stop this Twitter behavior by then, I expect the next Tesla shareholder meeting will see some protests and lots and lots of booing. If he even dares show up.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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Please keep blindly following. I’m sure this is going to help win people over:
Elon Musk ‘orders Twitter to remove suicide prevention feature’
Sources say new owner sought removal of the #ThereIsHelp feature which appeared at the top of certain searches
www.theguardian.com
I think people listen differently. Aspies like me and Elon care mostly about what people say. Most other people care more about what it make him seem like, which group he belongs to. If Elon says he generally doesn't hate anybody and then says that he dislikes the way some people use pronouns to be bullys, that makes it seem like he hate trans people. But he only said he dislike the way they use pronouns as tool, not that dislikes them(challenge the idea, not the person). The trans people who doesn't do this he has no problem with, he also dislikes the use of pronouns as a tool by non-trans people, so it's not specific to trans people. And he is reacting to them being a bully to him, forcing him to use their pronouns with bully tactics. When you fight a bully, you will seem like a bully from the bully's perspective. Why cannot he just accept their point of view? Stop being such a bully. If you don't I will stop buying your cars and tell all my friend to stop buying your cars also!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Which seems like the most petty take possible from the 2nd richest man in the world. I mean really, there is nothing better to be offended about than how some people identify, even if some people "abuse" it? Especially when every time you talk about it you consistently send the message that you have a problem with everyone who cares about a pronoun. His pronoun "memes" don't even hint at any nuance, nor does his anti woke madness.
He is one of the wealthiest and powerful persons on the planet and pronouns upset him. Pronouns. Poor guy. How about he just respects people and stop making fun of them.
Two examples of attacking the person, not the idea.
Btw, not saying this is wrong/right. Just saying that it's different way of communicating. Team Elon is to focus on the idea and ignore who it comes from, which the other team feel is bullying.
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I don't see the issue. There are people arguing for and against Elon. Doesn't seem like a bubble to me.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
How about just getting rid of gender-specific pronouns? This is a problem with English; it would never be a problem in Japanese, since non first person pronouns are dropped; since there are only first person pronouns used, well, people are free to refer to themselves however they want. Nor would it ever be a problem when speaking to someone in Mandarin Chinese because although the pronouns for "he" and "she" are written differently, they are pronounced the same and indistinguishable in speech. Get rid of the distinction between masculine and feminine pronouns (as in Mandarin Chinese) or just get rid of the pronouns themselves (as in Japanese) and this problem goes away. And people can start arguing about things that actually matter. It's obviously not necessary to have gender specific pronouns in language because there are plenty of languages that don't have them.
Which seems like the most petty take possible from the 2nd richest man in the world.
I mean really, there is nothing better to be offended about
Especially when every time you talk about it you consistently send the message that you have a problem with everyone who cares about a pronoun.
His pronoun "memes" don't even hint at any nuance, nor does his anti woke madness.
Ok, I guess we just listen differently. To me this seems like you are attacking the person, not the idea. But to you this seems like attacking his ideas. Agree to disagree?!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I described his status to show his position of power and emphasize how his words and actions have an outsized effect on others, especially the marginalized minority he keeps attacking. If I'm ranting about pronouns in my living room it bothers no one. The person speaking is as relevant as the ideas.
I have a better idea. How about we just respect people and let them live their lives? If that means that I use a pronoun for them to feel comfortable, then who cares? Is it really that much to ask? The core of this is pretty simple. At least in my mind. This isn't about pronouns. This is about people seeing the world change and seeing others (maybe a daughter in Elon's life) express who they are. And the people that have problems with pronouns, this doesn't fit into their world view and they think by acknowledging others are different, respecting them, that they are somehow hurting themselves or what they consider to be 'normal'. And some even feel this is a loss of power or control. News flash - the world changes and will continue to change and evolve, and bend more and more towards justice.
In my opinion, it's a language problem and it spills into more areas than just what people want to be called. Besides having to memorize what people want to be called and calling them by the proper pronouns (not a big deal IMO), there is also the matter of not having a singular gender-neutral or gender-unknown pronoun. So (for example) in places like this forum, where the gender or gender preference of the poster is unknown, I constantly have to refer to "he/she" because there's no other grammatically correct way to say this. It's just a tacky artifact of the language that we'd do better if we just got rid of.
italian bread
Member
Elon Musk ‘orders Twitter to remove suicide prevention feature’
Twitter has removed a feature in the past few days that promoted suicide prevention hotlines and other safety resources to users looking up certain content, according to two people familiar with the matter, who said it was ordered by new owner Elon Musk.
The removal of the feature, known as #ThereIsHelp, has not been previously reported. It had shown at the top of specific searches contacts for support organisations in many countries related to mental health, HIV, vaccines, child sexual exploitation, Covid19, gender-based violence, natural disasters and freedom of expression.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
How does this square with Elon, a supposed free-speech crusader and man of science pushing mis-information and aggressively banning people who don't happen to be from his "tribe"? Sure looks like he's attacking the persons, not the integrity of their ideas.
BitJam
Active Member
Then why the heck does he create problems for these people he was no problem with? The issue is not whether or not Elon harbors hatred in his heart, the issue is HIS ACTIONS AND WORDS!
There is a wide spectrum of humans on this Earth. Almost anything we do can get overdone by some. Using the fact that some people overdo a particular thing as an excuse to make life difficult for a larger group could be used against almost anyone. This excuse is indefensible. Bullying a large group of people because you dislike the bullying of a small subset of that group is not rational behavior and it certainly doesn't make the world a better place. Thousands of eyes for one eye makes the whole world blind.
And we've heard his "I don't hate X" excuse a million times before. I can't be a racist because I have black friends. I can't be a misogynist because there are women in my life I love. etc
@Elon If you don't hate trans people then stop acting like you do! Stop encouraging others to act hatefully! Stop needlessly making trans lives more difficult! Your bullying of all trans people will not even have a beneficial impact on the behavior you dislike. You can't learn from your mistakes when you refuse to admit you've made one.
@heltok
I appreciate that you are trying to discuss this rationally, especially when many people (including myself) get emotionally triggered by what we see as Elon's obviously bullying behavior. OTOH, I don't understand why you don't currently see how egregiously awful Elon's words were. IMO he conveyed that he plans to continue to bully all trans people, even the daughter of the Model-3 guy he was talking with, because there are some people on Earth who use pronouns in a way he finds objectionable.Further, he ended up by saying/implying he is not going to moderate his speech even if others find it offensive, even if it causes harm, and even if it harms his companies. There was not one iota of "I'm sorry if I hurt your daughter" or "maybe I'm wrong, let me think about this".
If you think I'm reading too much into his words, please offer corrections. I doubt you can refute that his mocking use of pronouns hurts trans people like the daughter of the man who bravely and respectfully asked the question. But if you think you can then have at it.
Again, I didn't hear that Elon plans to continue bully all trans people. I heard him saying that he will not suppress his views in order to supposed positively impact the TSLA stock price.
Anyway, to bring in some other people talking about the issue. In this clip Joe Rogan gives an example about his kid having a classmate, who was born female, who dresses like and behaves like a typical female child, who get's angry at anyone who refuses to call them they[did I do this correctly?!].
Is it anti-trans to call they she? Is it anti-trans to think it's problematic that they get[is this correct or not?!] upset about people calling they she? Are the kids bullying them by refusing to use their pronouns?
[feel free to just help me correct my grammar, I am not native speaker and from an older generation who didn't get to learn about neopronouns in school]
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JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Look, nothing Elon is doing on Twitter is excusable. If you're trying to excuse it you're wrong.
That's really all there is to it at this point.
That's really all there is to it at this point.
Thanks for trying to help me! I'll do my best to be convinced by your logic!
mach-edriver
Member
I’m 68 and thus Old School. A couple weeks ago I related that a young woman is assisting me in my Sunday school class and that she prefers the gender-neutral “they.” It is weird for me BUT I CAN HANDLE IT. It doesn’t make me “bullied.”
Hell, using “MS.” was weird for me when that neologism popped up but I don’t stumble or stutter or sneer when it arises in conversation. (Like the pronoun business, that too met with tremendous resistance when first introduced.)
We can choose to be open and caring of others or we can choose to be jerks. And if our inclination is the latter then we can still redeem our jerkiness by not broadcasting it.
I don’t care where on the spectrum Musk is. He is smart enough to know that even if empathy means little to him it means a great deal to others. Twitter has allowed him a forum in which to broadcast the ugliness of his soul to a vast global audience. To tie it back to Tesla, I can’t see a way in which that hasn’t damaged the brand.
Hell, using “MS.” was weird for me when that neologism popped up but I don’t stumble or stutter or sneer when it arises in conversation. (Like the pronoun business, that too met with tremendous resistance when first introduced.)
We can choose to be open and caring of others or we can choose to be jerks. And if our inclination is the latter then we can still redeem our jerkiness by not broadcasting it.
I don’t care where on the spectrum Musk is. He is smart enough to know that even if empathy means little to him it means a great deal to others. Twitter has allowed him a forum in which to broadcast the ugliness of his soul to a vast global audience. To tie it back to Tesla, I can’t see a way in which that hasn’t damaged the brand.
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