Spacep0d
Active Member
Breaking stuff and learning is one way to learn where to go. Otherwise there can be paralysis by analysis. You know, like Toyota.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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Breaking stuff and learning is one way to learn where to go. Otherwise there can be paralysis by analysis. You know, like Toyota.
Spacep0d
Active Member
We don't klnow how many H1B people are left in Twitter ... but given a choice most H1B people will not quit. It is difficult to find new companies that will transfer the H1B - and they will usually give you less money.
Also, H1B contractors are easily the most hard working in most companies. Because of the above reason. They may not be all that productive (because they usually don't have the context) ... but they work hard. Been there done that.
BUT, companies try to convert good H1B employees to full time quickly - after which they may not work that hard
When 90% of people leave, I think a better question is why are the 10% staying back. Assuming they are the "best" engineers and somehow all the ones who left are "bad" ... is simply irrational. It is more likely that the ones staying back are
- less likely to easily get jobs elsewhere (because of ability or visa status) or
- like Elon
Elon might want to have only "the best" working for Twitter .... but there is at present very little reason why "the best" would want to work for Twitter.
Well, the woke 'best' won't want to work for Elon, but there are other engineers and other candidates out there. The existing Twitter employees will skew toward those who don't want to work for Elon, which is to be expected. Obviously Twitter is in transition, employees included.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Non-woke doesn't mean 'anti-woke', assuming some engineers even know what 'woke' is. Not everyone is a politicized Gen-Z.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Correction, these are just the anti-woke engineers you know about. Why would a smart person announce being anti-woke whilst behind enemy lines? I've talked to gobs of people in my 32-year tech career and if you approach them with unreasonable ideology they're likely to rip you a new one, metaphorically. There are a whole lot of atheists in tech too, and that's not because they're gullible or believe in ideological nonsense. Even if they're 'progressive', it's a veneer for female-heavy (woke) HR, along with mandated training based in Leftist ideology. It's not like anyone can be 'anti-woke' at a 'progressive' tech company without attracting some serious ideological enemies who, like the Left, will operate to cancel said individual. Just look what happened to James Damore, or what is happening to Elon.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Wow, so you don't see a difference between videos on a woke platform (YouTube) vs. Elon's Twitter 2.0? You do realize that YouTube demonetizes for wrongthink, right? Twitter will likely not do this for the exact same video. Also, what about Vimeo? Videos are hosted there too, but it offers different benefits that some will pay for.
I used to be a vlogger, getting up to around 30k subscribers. I stopped because YouTube kept demonetizing videos they didn't like, especially anything critical of feminist ideology. Twitter 2.0 won't do that.
Spacep0d
Active Member
You do realize that if you think 'woke' ideology doesn't exist that you're woke, right? I have friends who say this, and they're SO woke it's absurd. They simply deny the basis of my challenges to their odd, reality-denying ideology. So, it's weird that you talk about reality-denial when woke ideology IS denial of certain realities, and then company policies are based around these replacement 'facts'. It's the same nonsense which got James Damore fired from Google, or maybe you'd like to deny that too?
Your denial of wokeness and its skeptics are like theists who pretend atheists don't exist, but we do.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Spacep0d
Active Member
This is true. Native Americans came from Africa originally and to the New World via Mongolia, traveling over the Bering land bridge before it was a strait. Originally and genetically, we all come from Africa with some Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA sprinkled in, all proved through mitochondrial DNA and other corroborating data.
Spacep0d
Active Member
I was going to make a similar case but you beat me to it!
This isn’t a Tesla investment forum. This is a Tesla forum with investment threads. Though for the last few weeks this thread probably has had about as much useful information about what’s going on with the SP as the main investment thread.
The vast majority of the threads of course seldom have mention of Elon and feature a lot less mention of politics, arguments over whether workers deserve benefits or instead should work 18 hour days and sleep under their desks.... and almost never mention “wokeness” -- a favorite word on the right that applies to very few on the left but is really, really handy for making people angry.
There may be a connection.
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Woke is such a politicized term. Really silly that it has become such...but it is indicative of how silly we humans are.@Spacep0d you're very woke to this thread. I mean that in a positive way (for you).
I am "woke" in the sense that I can change my mind when shown new facts that may challenge long help "truths".
Being Woke DOES not mean I am ready with pitchforks to help "cancel" anyone (another red herring IMHO)
I feel like 85% of "us" are being led by 15% of people that scream the loudest.
If Elon can somehow defuse the loudest screamers, it will be a blessing for us all.
This thread is moving so fast you probably didn't see what I wrote elsewhere. I have said both parties are somewhat problematic for him and his companies. There are a few Democrats who have been attacking him, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and AOC among them. I think they are wrong too. But those the far left does not speak for the entire Democratic party who also include Joe Manchin, Kristin Sinema, Jon Tester, and many other very moderate Democrats. The Democrats allow people in their coalition to express a large array of opinions, some of which I very strongly disagree with. The Republicans require people to be in lock step with the party line, even if that line includes over throwing the government. All the Republicans who had the temerity to vote to impeach the president from their party for attempting a coup faced strong resistance in their primaries and many got turfed out. The congresswoman from my district was one of them.
In the past Elon has talked about his belief that the human race was facing extreme peril from human caused climate change and that he was trying to do all he could to move the world towards a more renewable energy future and reduce our use of fossil fuels. He has now embraced the party that embraces the oil industry, has tried many time to kill renewable energy and electric cars, and has a significantly larger faction of climate deniers than the other side of the aisle. That seems to be bedrock beliefs in the Republican party.
The far left in the Democratic party do not share ideals with most of the rest of the party. I have thought that Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax idea would require a constitutional amendment to actually happen and there isn't enough support in the Democratic caucus to even get it out of committee. It's a bad idea for many reasons. It has failed everywhere it has been tried. But she keeps going on about these things and I think politically it only serves to fuel the opposition.
The main stream of the Democratic party is pro-EV, pro-renewable energy, is the only party making any attempt to reduce CO2 emissions, and generally has more in common with Elon's previously stated goals than the fringe left you cite who have little real world power, or the core of the Republican party who have a lot of power.
Behind Biden the main stream Democratic party is also more pro-union than it has been in some time. Which is not in Elon's interests, but that's a political calculation on the part of the Democrats. Unions have been a strong supporter of Democrats and helped Democrats get elected for many decades. Personally I think unions are a sign of management dysfunction than a necessity. If management is treating workers fairly, there should be no need for a union, but if people are being abused, then they do become a necessity.
Neither party is a perfect fit for his plans and the ideals he stated years ago, but the Democrats are a better fit than the Republicans, even though there are some people on the far left who are really trying to turn him into a political whipping boy. The smart response to the taunting would be some educational posts about why they are wrong than sounding like a middle schooler in an argument about petty things.
Spacep0d
Active Member
Usually people work hard to get this label. Frankly I don't like labels, but the woke are VERY quick to label their perceived ideological 'enemies'. I'm a center-left atheist and have never voted Republican (yet), but man I'm sick to the back teeth of the Left coming for Elon....or trying to shoehorn weird ideologies into public schools or into corporate 'training', college admissions and policy, and government. I'm tired of people 'offended' by settled science as it relates to biology or observable and demonstrable differences between the sexes. I could go on but I'll spare you.
So, it's not like this ideology doesn't infect our lives, just as far right religious conservatives can infect us with their weird moral laws (like overturning Roe v. Wade). I'm pro-choice, but you wouldn't know I was an ally from the way I'm treated by the woke left.
In my experience in actual real life, the Left are just so much worse to deal with because they don't yet have the humility that comes from marginalization or self-awareness. The Right get plenty wrong, but they're thicker-skinned adults in many cases, where the Left use underhanded tactics I'd expect from a Harpy sorority. The right will argue their case and let you live, but the Left want complete destruction of their enemies (as in getting people fired or 'canceled') and want complete control of the narrative. Then, there's the purity-filtering which just leads to absurd escalation and more virtue-signaling.
The reason I've moved away from the Left is the same reason Elon is, because of how the Left treats their 'perceived' enemies, real or imagined. 'Woke' is just shorthand for a constellation of ideas just like 'conservative' or 'religious', but it behooves us all to give people a chance to offer context and nuance. Sadly, mobs are pretty bad at this. Twitter was just one of the places where the mob convened when they're not out blocking traffic or destroying a city to 'protest' something.
Everything adds up, and it changes hearts and minds. All of this militant politicization of everything has a cost. One cost was a 4-year Trump presidency. Another is Elon buying Twitter and veering to the political right, and a whole lot more.
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Correct for the forum as a whole, I should've worded more carefully. But the subsection you're posting under here is "TSLA Investor Discussions".
Yes indeed. It should really just mean "aware" (of issues) and open-minded. I hate how it is used in an insulting and politically charged way as well. Though I also hate it when people with probably more politically charged opinions than they realise project those views onto others. And assume a broader portion of the population share those views than actually do. There's a lot of that going on in this thread and I take real issue with it, especially when it comes to assuming widespread harm to the Tesla brand and TSLA as an investment. With the stock price beaten down as it has been I totally understand people making this connection. But I think taking a step back and understanding this is a temporary blip in a sea of negative macro sentiment is also helpful.
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WTF is Woke other than having knowledge and not sticking you head in the sand and being asleep. I am sorry Elon not only went right because unfortunately he became the poster child, wrongly, for tax reform which is needed. He went right because he couldnt bare not getting the atta boys and photo opps with Biden. He just couldnt bare not getting the attention and only getting policy that greatly benefited Tesla. He couldnt take it that CAFE standards, which Tesla lobbied for, were raised resulting in Tesla ZEV credits increasing profits without getting a reception at the White House. He couldnt take it that IRA will be a boon for Tesla without getting a photo op at the White House. He could have played that game and made a public invitation for Biden to attend the grand opening of the largest EV factory in the United States, but he didnt.
He also just plain lied to the world. He said that bringing Trump back and others would be handled by a diverse panel, he never put the panel together and just brought people back and for the Insurrectionist in Chief he used a stupid twitter poll.
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Some Tesla supporters put blinders on and refuse to understand the political situation that the Democrats are in in the Rust Belt. Tons of union auto workers are threatened by Tesla killing the companies they rely on. As much as the Democatic party supports electrification they also realized that Republican party will have no problem telling those workers that the Democratic party is taking their livelyhood away with this needless green new deal because Climate Change isnt real and is just some conspiracy theory brought forth by tree huggers and George Soros. They did it with Coal workers when Hillary Clinton wanted to train Coal workers for new green energy. Biden administration going full bore praise of a California and Texas company would scare the living crap out of those workers and push purple states to red. I have defended Tesla non unionization because like you if companies treat employees well without unions they should be praised. Still if Elon treated Tesla employees like he has treated Twitter employees a union would be called for.
I think you mean before the land bridge was lost to the ocean.
Continental drift had split all the continents a solid 150 million years ago.
You think the right doesnt cancel. Cancel is nothing new. Do you think gay people didnt fear coming out of the closet for fear of being cancelled. Werent the Dixie Chicks cancelled for heaven forbid being a country act that was against the Iraq war. Hell cancel for people in the past could mean death or imprisonment. The right is out banning books, banning teaching the history of racism in this country. So many acts that I was never taught I discovered only after I watched "Watchmen" and looked up to see if the Tulsa Massacre was a real thing. That is because the right wouldnt allow that history to be taught in schools. Also it is the right that have a problem with settled science and when called on it call the people doing the calling as woke.
I dont understand your thought that the right is basically quiet. Hell we say the right with their humility try to overthrow the government. We saw the right with their humility drive someone to shoot up a LGBTQ club this weekend. That's really being cancelled.
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